Hydro or Shuttle for the long haul?

[rbstern]

Yeah that's basically my experience too. I think my tractor is the same as yours just rebranded. And mine is hydro. High range is great on flat ground. It hates hills. Medium range will pull my box blade up a hill but the throttle has to be nearly wide open. Without a load being pulled, medium will take the tractor anywhere. Obviously low range will pull anything as long as there's traction. Problem is, I find that low is REALLY low and medium is what I actually prefer for a low range. So I really don't have any higher speeds on this tractor that will work for me.

I posed the question on another forum: Given my exact tractor, but make it 35 HP instead of 25 HP, would my results be different? Most guys said no, there really isn't a lot of real world difference to justify going up and adding cost. If I really wanted to notice a large difference, they said, it's time to shop the 40+ HP units.

Funny how we have different perceptions of low vs. med. vs. high gearing. I'm used to low and creeper low on my Yanmar 2210, which couldn't outrun a snail, even if the snail was facing a stiff headwind. So low range on the MT225E seems relatively quick to me, for delicate tasks.

On the LS, I usually motor around on medium , 4th gear for moving around the property, and I find that fine if I'm not going more than a couple hundred yards.

Keep us posted on what you test and ultimately choose.

 

[the old grind]

Yeah that's basically my experience too. I think my tractor is the same as yours just rebranded. ... Medium range will pull my box blade up a hill but the throttle has to be nearly wide open. Without a load being pulled, medium will take the tractor anywhere. Obviously low range will pull anything as long as there's traction. .. I find that low is REALLY low and medium is what I actually prefer for a low range. So I really don't have any higher speeds on this tractor that will work for me.

I posed the question on another forum: Given my exact tractor, but make it 35 HP instead of 25 HP, would my results be different? Most guys said no, there really isn't a lot of real world difference to justify going up and adding cost. If I really wanted to notice a large difference, they said, it's time to shop the 40+ HP units.

What you heard from others, I feel validated. One thing to remember: getting more power to the ground with HST isn't going to happen with full pedal on the HST but with the opposite. HST is like a transmission but backward in a way. More pedal is tantamount to a highest gear in any range. I'll stick to my statement that we need to use the range selector the usual way and learn the oddity of HST. When I get to a hill, I lighten up on the HST pedal. It's like downshifting. I get less speed but more torque to the ground until I crest and can mash 'er down.

Funny how we have different perceptions of low vs. med. vs. high gearing. I'm used to low and creeper low on my Yanmar 2210, which couldn't outrun a snail, even if the snail was facing a stiff headwind. So low range on the MT225E seems relatively quick to me, for delicate tasks. ...On the LS, I usually motor around on medium ...

Yes. :thumbsup: Low range is good when the tires won't spin. (not being funny, engage as needed like 4WD) High range is for when med is too slow for traveling. A full bucket on level ground is ok. Example I've mentioned: dig or grapple in low, back up in med, carry in high. We HST owners have to get over thinking we won't be shifting ranges nearly as often as we'd shift manual gears. Often we must, just w/o a clutch.

Be glad either way, guys. Your tractors out-spec my 33 & 35 & I'd have been as well off with the 30hp version of the latter. Gears will make up for hp you won't use, and I suggest you've sacrificed nothing for getting work done. (I regret trading in my 23hp. The newer ones won't do a lick more)

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Glad you found us.

One other thought: There have also been times when I wished the MT225E was as simple as my 40 year old Yanmar, like when my butt needs to come off the seat to see something going in reverse, but I don't want the engine ignition to die because of the seat sensor built into the MT225E. On the other hand, I haven't had a chance to have that feature on the MT225E save life or limb for me. Maybe I will grow to appreciate it. Hope I never go there.

You have a seat switch on yours? My shuttle shift does not have one.... I know that the HST ones do have it.

 

[rbstern]

You have a seat switch on yours? My shuttle shift does not have one.... I know that the HST ones do have it.

Yep. Tractor version of the auto-park feature found in newer cars.

Maybe a difference between the XG3025 and MT225E?

 

[ericm979]

What you heard from others, I feel validated. One thing to remember: getting more power to the ground with HST isn't going to happen with full pedal on the HST but with the opposite. HST is like a transmission but backward in a way. More pedal is tantamount to a highest gear in any range. I'll stick to my statement that we need to use the range selector the usual way and learn the oddity of HST. When I get to a hill, I lighten up on the HST pedal. It's like downshifting. I get less speed but more torque to the ground until I crest and can mash 'er down.

It gets even more confusing when you have a tractor with linked throttle and HST. Mine lets me set the hand throttle higher if needed, which I do when going up hill.

 

[Blue Mule]

What you heard from others, I feel validated. One thing to remember: getting more power to the ground with HST isn't going to happen with full pedal on the HST but with the opposite. HST is like a transmission but backward in a way. More pedal is tantamount to a highest gear in any range. I'll stick to my statement that we need to use the range selector the usual way and learn the oddity of HST. When I get to a hill, I lighten up on the HST pedal. It's like downshifting. I get less speed but more torque to the ground until I crest and can mash 'er down.



Yes. :thumbsup: Low range is good when the tires won't spin. (not being funny, engage as needed like 4WD) High range is for when med is too slow for traveling. A full bucket on level ground is ok. Example I've mentioned: dig or grapple in low, back up in med, carry in high. We HST owners have to get over thinking we won't be shifting ranges nearly as often as we'd shift manual gears. Often we must, just w/o a clutch.

Be glad either way, guys. Your tractors out-spec my 33 & 35 & I'd have been as well off with the 30hp version of the latter. Gears will make up for hp you won't use, and I suggest you've sacrificed nothing for getting work done. (I regret trading in my 23hp. The newer ones won't do a lick more)

So from what I've gathered from looking through spec sheets and watching videos, the horsepower level of the tractor isn't going to change hydraulic flow to the attachments. The loader, 3-point hitch, etc. are going to function exactly the same regardless of whether the engine is 25 HP or 45 HP. In fact, with the New Holland Workmaster series as an example, the 25 has a higher loader lift rating than the 35 or 40, and the hitch rating is identical.

What I'm still wondering though is about the hydrostatic transmission. Will it pull with more power if the engine has more power? In other words... my high range is useless to me right now. It's usable on level ground at 2,000+ RPM only. If my engine were, say, 40 horsepower would the hydro transmission pull harder so that high range would be able to handle hills?

Or does horsepower only matter when we're talking PTO implements?

 

[ptsg]

So from what I've gathered from looking through spec sheets and watching videos, the horsepower level of the tractor isn't going to change hydraulic flow to the attachments. The loader, 3-point hitch, etc. are going to function exactly the same regardless of whether the engine is 25 HP or 45 HP. In fact, with the New Holland Workmaster series as an example, the 25 has a higher loader lift rating than the 35 or 40, and the hitch rating is identical.

What I'm still wondering though is about the hydrostatic transmission. Will it pull with more power if the engine has more power? In other words... my high range is useless to me right now. It's usable on level ground at 2,000+ RPM only. If my engine were, say, 40 horsepower would the hydro transmission pull harder so that high range would be able to handle hills?

Or does horsepower only matter when we're talking PTO implements?

Yes, with more horsepower, you would also be able use the High range a lot more. You could even do some of the task you do in Low range, you could do it in Medium range.

 

[crazyal]

HP always matters. It takes HP to move your tractor. It doesn't matter if it's connected with a driveshaft or a hydraulic pump. The higher the gear ratio the more power is needed. That's why in low gear your HST has no problems what so ever. When in M it still moves just fine but you can now start to feel the limitations. In M if you try to pull something with too much drag it'll act just the same as if in H.

There's nothing magical about HST. It's just a different way of connecting your engine to your wheels. It's just not as efficient as gears. With gears there's a little loss because of the resistance of the gears meshing together and the bearings. With HST there's a little bit of oil that might pass between parts in the pump, the resistance in the lines when the oil flows, and the fact that the oil heats up (you're turning a percentage of your HP into heat). HST just has more losses than gears. Shuttle is kind of in the middle but closer to a manual transmission with a clutch. Chances are your tractor's transmission was designed to work with the range of HP options that are offered. If you have the lowest HP option you are going to notice it having to work hard in H vs higher HP versions. The other option would be to have different gear ratios to better match HP which would drive up production costs.

 

[ericm979]

When I am frustrated with the slow speed of my tractor up hills, especially with a load, I remember that with the loader and loaded tires it weighs more than my pickup truck but has 37 hp vs the trucks' 380 hp.

 

[rbstern]

So from what I've gathered from looking through spec sheets and watching videos, the horsepower level of the tractor isn't going to change hydraulic flow to the attachments. The loader, 3-point hitch, etc. are going to function exactly the same regardless of whether the engine is 25 HP or 45 HP. In fact, with the New Holland Workmaster series as an example, the 25 has a higher loader lift rating than the 35 or 40, and the hitch rating is identical.

What I'm still wondering though is about the hydrostatic transmission. Will it pull with more power if the engine has more power? In other words... my high range is useless to me right now. It's usable on level ground at 2,000+ RPM only. If my engine were, say, 40 horsepower would the hydro transmission pull harder so that high range would be able to handle hills?

Or does horsepower only matter when we're talking PTO implements?

More horsepower lets your tractor push against a load with more force. While the output rate (in RPMs) from the larger hp engine might be the same as a lower hp engine, the engine with the additional hp can apply more torque to the output (shaft of the engine). Whatever the load is on the other end, gears or hyraulic pumps, those loads are harder to push when they are heavier because the work they are doing is providing more resistence via higher gear ratios, more backpressure from hydraulic oil, etc.

When an engine can't produce enough power to do the requested task, the RPMs drop. That's the indicator that you've maxed out on engine power. The same load, with higher HP, engine RPMs will not drop, or will not drop as much.

So, yes, higher HP does matter in those situations where something is pushing the engine to the limit of its capability.