Hydrogen generator to save gasoline

[MossRoad]

I wish people would offer some discussion instead of jumping in with the perpetual motion machine rantings. We already know is not possible but just want to know if anyone has tried it.

Moss I'm curious and like you I'm not selling or buying anything here. I saw the flick that used the small stainless plates and it made me even more curious.

So why don't you try it and let me know if it works? hee hee.

The one guy claims modest increases in fuel mileage. It seemed reasonable. And, since he shows you the plans, how to make it, and the material list, I don't think he is in it for any profit. He just seems like he wants to investigate it and talk about it with others. The drawback for me is finding the time to put one of these things together, taking good measurements before and after and keeping with the program to document everything.

When I was a kid I won a science fair with a hydrogen generator. It was just a battery, some salt water and some wires in an inverted test tube. Turn on the switch and the bubbles started coming off the wire, going up into the test tube, and forcing the water out. It was cool and interesting. It would be fun to try it on a larger scale.

Lets say you added hydrogen from a tank, instead of a generator, similar to a nitrous system. How much would you have to add to see your car use less gasoline? Would adding hydrogen to the airflow help the gasoline combust better? Cleaner? More oomph?

What if you had a deep cycle marine battery that you charged with a solar panel while the car was sitting in the parking lot and used that to run your hydrogen generator? It would sap nothing from your alternator/car battery.

 

[PineRidge]

Moss you ask to many questions JUST KIDDING!

How about sending me a link via a PM on the guy you're talking about.

 

[DocHeb]

Automotive companies are "under the gun" to meet CAFE standards, eaking every fractional mile they can from their engines. If these units worked, I think these would be standard equipment.

 

[MossRoad]

Moss you ask to many questions JUST KIDDING!

How about sending me a link via a PM on the guy you're talking about.

O.K. check your PMs.

 

[RonMar]

Yep, it takes many many times more energy to generate hydrogen than you get out of it in any form. I think the best conversion thru a fuel cell only nets a ratio of power in to power out of 8 to 1. Or 8KWH of power in to make enough hydrogen to generate 1KWH out of a fuel cell... That is the big secret that people trying to influence the government to grant them money for R&D in hydrogen do not like to talk about. As an energy storage medium, it is a very inefficient one. The losses involved in storage and transport are staggering.

If it is powered by the auto alternator, that makes it even worse. The claw rotor design of an auto alternator is only about 40-50% efficient at converting torque to electrical current. Cracking hydrogen take a lot of electrical current. The added hydrogen and perhaps the O2 also may influence the burning of gasoline, but I have yet to see it proved either onpaper or in practice. I don't think these have any merrit. I know if I could do it, I would demonstrate it conclusively to potential investors and market it. I have yet to see anyone do this...

I welcome you to be the first.

Good luck

 

[john_bud]

There are a few websites out there that show you how to make your own. Those are the ones that I would investigate, rather than the ones that try to sell you plans or kits.

The concept is not the perpetual motion machine. The concept is the hydrogen helps the gasoline burn more efficiently, which is plausible. Not too different from a high flow air cleaner, hotter spark plugs, adjusting the timing, etc... The ones that I have seen pump the gas into the air stream upstream from the mass air flow sensor so that the computer doesn't get so screwed up trying to adjust for improper oxygen.

One guy used stainless steel light switch cover blanks and scored them to increase the surface area. It was a well documented site. I am waiting for someone here to try it before I shell out the money and time to do it myself.

Moss, you are dead wrong. It IS the same as a perpetual motion machine. The machine is an alternator that powers a hydrogen generator that powers an internal combustion engine that powers the alternator. Remeber that the alternator is about 50% efficient at converting rotational energy into electricity. The internal combustion engine is 25% efficient at turning fuel energy into rotational energy. The hydrogen generators you have plans to are about 25-30% efficient. So, 50% x 25% x 25% = 6.25% efficient. That means that the hydrogen has to "improve" the engine 1600% more than the energy content of the hydrogen. As they say - fat chance.

The amount of hydrogen generated is on the order of 1 liter per minute of TOTAL GAS. That is 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen. Plus any moisture from bubbling thru hot water. Added to an engine the hydrogen is in the 0.01% the total combustables. Add the fact that hydrogen needs to be at of above 4% in air to be combustible. That means that there is not enough hydrogen in the air to even be flammable!!

The whole area is one filled with pure lies, fraud and deceit. It really has no more place here than if you were to tell us you want us to send $10,000 to the King of Nigeria. Seriously -> it's a fraud. Same as cow magnets. Same as any one of the other hundred mpg improvers that came out in the '70s during the last gas shortage. Remember those? Go to the EPA web site and dig in. You will find that the EPA has fitted about 100 of these mpg increasing devices and ran them thru the same battery of tests that a new car goes thru to get it's mpg rating. NOT A ONE helped.

Here is a link to give you some real facts.

Hydrogen as a Fuel for Automobiles and Other Vehicles

I gotta go now, the King of Nigeria needs me to send him $20,000 so he can finalize his countries hydrogen production facility, then he promised to send me a money order for $10,000,000 on Christmas Day.

jb


PS. If you want to see a engine speed up at idle. Pop off a vacuum line. Duh. Adding one of these things and putting in more air at idle is the same thing.

 

[PineRidge]

I think this report was published in Nov, 2007 by the Departmrnt Of Transportation.

 

[john_bud]

Did you read that linked doc? It's about pure 100% hydrogen powered vehicles. Either as combustion fuel or in a fuel cell making electricity.

It has nothing to do with the electrolysis of water being used to "enhance" combustion.

 

[PineRidge]

For anyone that might be interested, here is a link to a blog that discusses this principle. There are real people here that have tried the concept and share ideas as well.

AGAIN: I am not condoning hydrogen generators one way or the other. I am just sharing information.

 

[JohninCT]

Search on "HHO Generator" in You Tube. There are dozens videos of "backyard experimenters" sure to keep you entertained for many hours.