I am into to it now! Jd 14t
- Thread starter BryanM
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Robert_in_NY
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- Case-IH Farmall 45A, Kubota M8540 Narrow, New Holland TN 65, Bobcat 331, Ford 1920, 1952 John Deere M, Allis Chalmers B, Bombardier Traxter XT, Massey Harris 81RC and a John Deere 3300 combine, Cub Cadet GT1554
Did the trees come with the baler also
Bryan, if you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay for this baler?
My friend has an old Case 220 or 230 (I am thinking it was a 230) baler with thrower and has been very well taken care of and stored inside its entire life. I can buy it for around $100- $200 and if I had the room in my barn I would buy it right now and I might buy it anyway and just store it at his place until I get another barn built.
What I love about his old Case baler is that it is unique and I would use it as a backup to my 575 or in case of emergency I would run it with another operator and have both balers out there if rain is approaching. I know parts will be kind of hard to come by but as a back up it would suit me fine and I can use it as a play toy also if I just want to play around with some antique tractors, maybe behind an old 30 series Case so they match
Bryan, if you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay for this baler?
My friend has an old Case 220 or 230 (I am thinking it was a 230) baler with thrower and has been very well taken care of and stored inside its entire life. I can buy it for around $100- $200 and if I had the room in my barn I would buy it right now and I might buy it anyway and just store it at his place until I get another barn built.
What I love about his old Case baler is that it is unique and I would use it as a backup to my 575 or in case of emergency I would run it with another operator and have both balers out there if rain is approaching. I know parts will be kind of hard to come by but as a back up it would suit me fine and I can use it as a play toy also if I just want to play around with some antique tractors, maybe behind an old 30 series Case so they match
OK, looks like you have the knotter frames pulled up for inspection. Need a picture of the "tucker fingers" (see manual, page 28). You can flop them over free hand by pushing the cam follower on the tucker finger pull shaft. One common problem is that this shaft has gotten bent and one of the fingers is "late" or "early". Its just soft steel. You can bend it to make them run together. Adjust the pull rods as necessary to get them working in parallel. When the knotter is loaded and ready to begin tieing, there should be twine captured in each of the twine disk holders.
Like I said earlier, before I loaded twine into the machine, I would walk it all thru by very small flywheel angle changes to watch the needles pick up and slide across the twine disks, tucker fingers syncronized together to pull in, the bill hooks open and rotate and the wiper arms get punched across the billhooks.
Getting two knotters working is easy once you have one getting the job done. They both play exactly together. See which one is not reading the music correctly. The possibility of weak or broken springs is strong. I see you are using sisal. Was this originally in the machine or was it plastic?
I wish I could put together a YouTube video of what's going on in stop action. maybe that's something to do soon.
The manual must be read VERY carefully. Understand each word by word description of the tying sequence.
Start some pix of the knotter sequence on your machine as the needle tips go over the twine holder (page2), and the wiper arms begin contact with the billhooks.
Lets take this one very small step at a time.
Like I said earlier, before I loaded twine into the machine, I would walk it all thru by very small flywheel angle changes to watch the needles pick up and slide across the twine disks, tucker fingers syncronized together to pull in, the bill hooks open and rotate and the wiper arms get punched across the billhooks.
Getting two knotters working is easy once you have one getting the job done. They both play exactly together. See which one is not reading the music correctly. The possibility of weak or broken springs is strong. I see you are using sisal. Was this originally in the machine or was it plastic?
I wish I could put together a YouTube video of what's going on in stop action. maybe that's something to do soon.
The manual must be read VERY carefully. Understand each word by word description of the tying sequence.
Start some pix of the knotter sequence on your machine as the needle tips go over the twine holder (page2), and the wiper arms begin contact with the billhooks.
Lets take this one very small step at a time.
As I further study your pix, It looks to me like the tucker finger drive shaft (parts book page 15 item 3, has been twisted such that the two rectangular arms that come off it are not parallel. Make them parallel: block one with a piece of wood and put a pipe wrench on the other and "adjust" it . You may have to loosen all the stuff there to change the pull rod lengths if you have to bend it and the base mounting position of one of them to get it all back square. Get some grease on some of these parts, too. Looks to be a bit dry as in degreaser + power washer was used.
The two different wiper arms are the result of a rebuild on the left side. Sometime in a previous life the thing got broke and was repaired. If its not all rusty, that means to me that it never worked right after the rebuild and now its yours to fix. The original bust may have caused a jam that twisted the tucker finger shaft. (hope that's it).
The two different wiper arms are the result of a rebuild on the left side. Sometime in a previous life the thing got broke and was repaired. If its not all rusty, that means to me that it never worked right after the rebuild and now its yours to fix. The original bust may have caused a jam that twisted the tucker finger shaft. (hope that's it).
I was told this baler was last used in july and worked fine. Thats what I was told. It also had bales of hay that where in it so I had to clean those bales out.
Lets back up a bit. If I hand turn the flywheel, should both knotters go threw a series and ty knots in the string? (without any hay being run threw?) what will happen if I just keep turnin the fly wheel over without any material going threw?
I am not sure I have problem yet. Only because I dont knbow what should happen if I have no material and turning it by hand.
ZZ I will try and get some better pics for you. And try and inspect the drive shaft a little closer! (know that I remember how to down size and post Pics). thanks
I just went down to the barn before work turned it over to identify the tucker fingers, they dont seem to be grabing any twine although threir is no tension on the twine as if material was going threw. So thats what I was wondering if it needed to have material going threw to have all the tension and slack out of the twine after the needle gomes up for the second time?
Lets back up a bit. If I hand turn the flywheel, should both knotters go threw a series and ty knots in the string? (without any hay being run threw?) what will happen if I just keep turnin the fly wheel over without any material going threw?
I am not sure I have problem yet. Only because I dont knbow what should happen if I have no material and turning it by hand.
ZZ I will try and get some better pics for you. And try and inspect the drive shaft a little closer! (know that I remember how to down size and post Pics). thanks
I just went down to the barn before work turned it over to identify the tucker fingers, they dont seem to be grabing any twine although threir is no tension on the twine as if material was going threw. So thats what I was wondering if it needed to have material going threw to have all the tension and slack out of the twine after the needle gomes up for the second time?
Last edited:
CumminsLuke
Silver Member
BryanM said:
When turning the baler over by hand and triping the knotter mechanism both knotters should tie at the same time, if they don't something is wrong. Nothing will happen when turning it over by hand with no material, turn till your heart is content, but if you want it to go through a tie sequence you have to trip the tie mechanism by turning the bale length metering wheel like the hay would do if it was going through there.
I would not trip the knotter while twine was loaded without hay being packed because nothing will draw the twine through to make a bale loop. This can result in bale loops being caught in the bill hooks. If too many loops are caught in the billhooks and they try to open, then the hook closer will fracture.
Get the thing working without hay and twine. Set the needle lift so that they slide by the twine disks just touching (as the manual says). Get the tucker fingers to draw together (same displacement and angle). Get good flyback action on them (springs). Adjust the wiper arms so that they scrape the billhooks. Get the cutoff knives to be razor sharp with no pits or dings in them. Looks like your knives are riveted in. Buy some new knives, pull the pins on the wiper arms, yank them out and change the knives. Replace rivets with bolts. Test the needle brake to make sure they don't bounce back from home position.
Check twine pull tension with a fish scale at the bale box and the twine disks.
Then consentrate on the plunger stops in the bottom of the bale chute. Clean out their tracks and make susre they have good spring tension. They should snap back into home position when you tweak them.
That's all it takes. Dimension control and elastic properties are all the machine needs to work.
I'll try to find my camera and get you some pix of my own deal showing where on the baler this stuff is.
Get the thing working without hay and twine. Set the needle lift so that they slide by the twine disks just touching (as the manual says). Get the tucker fingers to draw together (same displacement and angle). Get good flyback action on them (springs). Adjust the wiper arms so that they scrape the billhooks. Get the cutoff knives to be razor sharp with no pits or dings in them. Looks like your knives are riveted in. Buy some new knives, pull the pins on the wiper arms, yank them out and change the knives. Replace rivets with bolts. Test the needle brake to make sure they don't bounce back from home position.
Check twine pull tension with a fish scale at the bale box and the twine disks.
Then consentrate on the plunger stops in the bottom of the bale chute. Clean out their tracks and make susre they have good spring tension. They should snap back into home position when you tweak them.
That's all it takes. Dimension control and elastic properties are all the machine needs to work.
I'll try to find my camera and get you some pix of my own deal showing where on the baler this stuff is.
Okay I am ready to dig in Just got of work for the wkend!
First let me take the time too thank all for helping me. ZZvyb6 you are right on the money and have noticed things in the pic that I missed. I believe you are correct on the tucker finger shaft being out of parallel with each other. I am wondering if I should start their? As I rolled the needeles up I believe that the tucker fingers come in contact with the needle. which I believe is wrong.
Another thing is when you arent having material to bale slack and loops form in twine causing twine disks to get jambed with twine( if I keep turning the fly wheel).
So with that being said I am taking twine out of the equation for know and going to the service manual checking service checking on page 22. I would like to take some photos of the needles coming up and all action insequence to see if you see anything out of wack? So bare with me. and hopefully we can get this baler back in shape!
First let me take the time too thank all for helping me. ZZvyb6 you are right on the money and have noticed things in the pic that I missed. I believe you are correct on the tucker finger shaft being out of parallel with each other. I am wondering if I should start their? As I rolled the needeles up I believe that the tucker fingers come in contact with the needle. which I believe is wrong.
Another thing is when you arent having material to bale slack and loops form in twine causing twine disks to get jambed with twine( if I keep turning the fly wheel).
So with that being said I am taking twine out of the equation for know and going to the service manual checking service checking on page 22. I would like to take some photos of the needles coming up and all action insequence to see if you see anything out of wack? So bare with me. and hopefully we can get this baler back in shape!
The tucker fingers should not touch the needles. In fact, the tierods on them had worn swivels which I replaced with rod ends from Home Depot. Remove them for inspection and see if the pins they ride on are worn. If they are their swing motion will be erratic and cause a missed tie. If you can weld, fill in the worn metal with some rod and grind it smooth.
I'll get some pic of my own for you to compare. Note that you can swing the tucker fingers yourself just by moving the cam follower. This action should be fairly stiff. If not, replace the springs on it.
I believe the manual states that the needles should lightly touch the knotter frame as they come up. This is probably to prevent them from getting skewed as they rise.
The baler probably did sort of work, just not reliably. That's what doomed it. Mine had a bent tucker finger shaft, worn billhook tooth, a chipped twine knife and a missing spring on the plunger stop. It only tied on one side. The guy had his 10 year old kid hand tie the missing string.
I would also tell you to decide now on plastic or sisal twine. Check the local availability at TSC, Farm & Fleet, local dealer, eBay, Internet supply, etc. Most folks have a strong opinion on either one. I like the colored plastic because its easy to see on the ground. When its wrapped up around your lawn mower plades its easier to remove. I think its stronger, too. But it will burn your fingers when grabbing it and throw the bales during delivery or feedout. The twine tension must be adjusted for either type (plastic is more slippery). You can't intermix the two types without a readjustment.
The knotter is only one subsystem. The plunger gearbox and its slides need inspection as does the feeder knives: stationary and plunger knife. Great if you can get the bolts loose to remove and sharpen. If not climb in there with a 4" grinder and touch them up. Sticks, stones, rake teeth, mower knives, rattle snakes and an occasional woodchuck have gone thru mine.
I'll get some pic of my own for you to compare. Note that you can swing the tucker fingers yourself just by moving the cam follower. This action should be fairly stiff. If not, replace the springs on it.
I believe the manual states that the needles should lightly touch the knotter frame as they come up. This is probably to prevent them from getting skewed as they rise.
The baler probably did sort of work, just not reliably. That's what doomed it. Mine had a bent tucker finger shaft, worn billhook tooth, a chipped twine knife and a missing spring on the plunger stop. It only tied on one side. The guy had his 10 year old kid hand tie the missing string.
I would also tell you to decide now on plastic or sisal twine. Check the local availability at TSC, Farm & Fleet, local dealer, eBay, Internet supply, etc. Most folks have a strong opinion on either one. I like the colored plastic because its easy to see on the ground. When its wrapped up around your lawn mower plades its easier to remove. I think its stronger, too. But it will burn your fingers when grabbing it and throw the bales during delivery or feedout. The twine tension must be adjusted for either type (plastic is more slippery). You can't intermix the two types without a readjustment.
The knotter is only one subsystem. The plunger gearbox and its slides need inspection as does the feeder knives: stationary and plunger knife. Great if you can get the bolts loose to remove and sharpen. If not climb in there with a 4" grinder and touch them up. Sticks, stones, rake teeth, mower knives, rattle snakes and an occasional woodchuck have gone thru mine.
I have the knotter assembly in the up position
Looking at the shaft drive for the finger assembly arm A and B are not parrellel and should these arms stop against bar c behind them.
when I move the tucker fingers by hand, rotating the shaft drive they (finger tucker both move at the same time. Took a couple more pics of this assembly.
Looking at the shaft drive for the finger assembly arm A and B are not parrellel and should these arms stop against bar c behind them.
when I move the tucker fingers by hand, rotating the shaft drive they (finger tucker both move at the same time. Took a couple more pics of this assembly.
