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Richard
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Ideas on framing out a "step" inside shower stall?
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Re: Ideas on framing out a \"step\" inside shower stall?
Above the footrest will be a shelf (and another shelf same height, far right wall), I'm presuming how ever I "line" the back of the footrest, I'll have to line the backside of this shelf also? (5/4" boards)
Above the footrest will be a shelf (and another shelf same height, far right wall), I'm presuming how ever I "line" the back of the footrest, I'll have to line the backside of this shelf also? (5/4" boards)
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Richard
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Re: Ideas on framing out a \"step\" inside shower stall?
Since I'm "milking" your knowledge (and I DO appreciate any thoughts), the wife wants my temperature balanced valve in a certain location which just happens to be BELOW the switchbox.
Because my water supply will actually come from above (pipes in ceiling) I'll have to bring them down and back UP to go into the underside of my valve.
No room to do that in this wall space, besides, I don't really care for the idea of mixing water pipes so close to my yet to be installed wires. What I'm going to do is drop the water lines down on the RIGHT side of that stud, then cut over 90 degrees to plumb into the bottom of the valve. On the TOP side of the valve, I'll turn immediately to the right with the output go through the stud again and then go vertical. Once up high, I'll go back through the SAME stud so that in the end, the shower head is straight above the valve but (unfortunately) the water takes more of a convoluted path.
Since I'm "milking" your knowledge (and I DO appreciate any thoughts), the wife wants my temperature balanced valve in a certain location which just happens to be BELOW the switchbox.
Because my water supply will actually come from above (pipes in ceiling) I'll have to bring them down and back UP to go into the underside of my valve.
No room to do that in this wall space, besides, I don't really care for the idea of mixing water pipes so close to my yet to be installed wires. What I'm going to do is drop the water lines down on the RIGHT side of that stud, then cut over 90 degrees to plumb into the bottom of the valve. On the TOP side of the valve, I'll turn immediately to the right with the output go through the stud again and then go vertical. Once up high, I'll go back through the SAME stud so that in the end, the shower head is straight above the valve but (unfortunately) the water takes more of a convoluted path.
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Richard
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Re: Ideas on framing out a \"step\" inside shower stall?
Last one!! whoo hoo...
Back side of the valve. Since it's going into a 4x wall and not a 6x wall, I'm not sure I've got any room to install a backplate for it. IT's got two holes to help mount it on either side of the vertical exit hole.
Any ideas on how to brace it or do I just get a 2x4 and chop/hack away so I until I can fit it around the center hole?
I've already done that to one board as an experiment and frankly, not sure there's enough meat left to really support anything.
Unfortunately, the wife does NOT want this in the side wall (2x6) but rather, thinks it needs to be on this front wall which limits me to a 2x4's depth.
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Last one!! whoo hoo...
Back side of the valve. Since it's going into a 4x wall and not a 6x wall, I'm not sure I've got any room to install a backplate for it. IT's got two holes to help mount it on either side of the vertical exit hole.
Any ideas on how to brace it or do I just get a 2x4 and chop/hack away so I until I can fit it around the center hole?
I've already done that to one board as an experiment and frankly, not sure there's enough meat left to really support anything.
Unfortunately, the wife does NOT want this in the side wall (2x6) but rather, thinks it needs to be on this front wall which limits me to a 2x4's depth.
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
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RonMar
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Re: Ideas on framing out a \"step\" inside shower stall?
Richard
I would put a center support under that step. That is where the pressure will be exerted and any flex will ultimately cause leaks in the tile/grout.
As for the valve, I concur with not running the plumbing down over the top of that electrical box. My personal preference would be to not have them in the same cavity as valves and plumbing do fail and can spray. Can you shift the outlet over one cavity? If not, I would look into placing a divider across between the studs above the valve and plumbing to remove any possibility of water spray finding the electrical outlet. It dosn't have to be much, 1/4" or 1/2" ply ancored to wood blocks on each stud(or across the top of the inner studs in the next suggestion.
As for anchoring the valve, I would suggest inletting a step on each inner corner of the back side (electrical outlet side) of the studs or placing 2 inner short studs that are ripped down to a lesser thickness(whatever thickness is needed to get the proper valve position)and placing a metal plate or 2 bars across the back side of the valve at the height to match the mount holes seen on either side of the top pipe fitting. I am assuming there is something similar on the bottom of the valve. See attached top view drawing. Black are the existing 2X4 studs, green are the added thinner studs. Red is the metal back plate, blue is the valve and grey are the bolts/hardware.
Richard
I would put a center support under that step. That is where the pressure will be exerted and any flex will ultimately cause leaks in the tile/grout.
As for the valve, I concur with not running the plumbing down over the top of that electrical box. My personal preference would be to not have them in the same cavity as valves and plumbing do fail and can spray. Can you shift the outlet over one cavity? If not, I would look into placing a divider across between the studs above the valve and plumbing to remove any possibility of water spray finding the electrical outlet. It dosn't have to be much, 1/4" or 1/2" ply ancored to wood blocks on each stud(or across the top of the inner studs in the next suggestion.
As for anchoring the valve, I would suggest inletting a step on each inner corner of the back side (electrical outlet side) of the studs or placing 2 inner short studs that are ripped down to a lesser thickness(whatever thickness is needed to get the proper valve position)and placing a metal plate or 2 bars across the back side of the valve at the height to match the mount holes seen on either side of the top pipe fitting. I am assuming there is something similar on the bottom of the valve. See attached top view drawing. Black are the existing 2X4 studs, green are the added thinner studs. Red is the metal back plate, blue is the valve and grey are the bolts/hardware.
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Re: Ideas on framing out a \"step\" inside shower stall?
Good ideas! & Thanks!!
I hadn't thought of any metal backplates. I suppose it'd be easy enough to find... just get my measurements & perhaps go to a scrap metal... oh, even better perhaps (would need to tinker with this one)
I've goe some of that angle iron (??) that I used to attach the garage hardware. This is the tough stuff that doesn't flex.
Perhaps I've got enough crap where I could cob a brace that long... !!
If not, I'll go to scrap yard.
Oh, and the mixer valve ONLY has the bolt holes on top. There are none what so ever anywhere else on it. Kind of strikes me as rather odd since brass is soft and since the holes are say 2" from the back plane, you need to fill in that gap somehow or risk deforming the ears.
Since this was made in Germany (Grohe), I'm a bit surprised at its construction. Seems those Germans usually think of everything (or more likely, I'm simply missing something /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif)
Good ideas! & Thanks!!
I hadn't thought of any metal backplates. I suppose it'd be easy enough to find... just get my measurements & perhaps go to a scrap metal... oh, even better perhaps (would need to tinker with this one)
I've goe some of that angle iron (??) that I used to attach the garage hardware. This is the tough stuff that doesn't flex.
Perhaps I've got enough crap where I could cob a brace that long... !!
If not, I'll go to scrap yard.
Oh, and the mixer valve ONLY has the bolt holes on top. There are none what so ever anywhere else on it. Kind of strikes me as rather odd since brass is soft and since the holes are say 2" from the back plane, you need to fill in that gap somehow or risk deforming the ears.
Since this was made in Germany (Grohe), I'm a bit surprised at its construction. Seems those Germans usually think of everything (or more likely, I'm simply missing something /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif)
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Re: Ideas on framing out a \"step\" inside shower stall?
Just as an aside, we're installing one shower head, one hand held and 3 body sprays. Each I belive are rated at 2 1/2 (or was it 2 1/4?) gallons/minute.
Since I'm on a well, I'm not terribly concerned about saving water. I've taken out the restrictors. Well, actually two of them BROKE on their removal /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I called Grohe & asked if they knew flow rates without the restrictors and they said 4 to 4 1/2 gpm (each)
Now I get it... when we were at the local supply store, the girl laughed at me & said I wasn't building a shower, I was building a CAR WASH!!
whoo hoo!
We've gone from about 10gpm max (using shower & body sprays) to 18 gpm with removal of the restrictors.
Why am I getting a sinking feeling that my next purchase is going to be a larger water heater... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Just as an aside, we're installing one shower head, one hand held and 3 body sprays. Each I belive are rated at 2 1/2 (or was it 2 1/4?) gallons/minute.
Since I'm on a well, I'm not terribly concerned about saving water. I've taken out the restrictors. Well, actually two of them BROKE on their removal /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I called Grohe & asked if they knew flow rates without the restrictors and they said 4 to 4 1/2 gpm (each)
Now I get it... when we were at the local supply store, the girl laughed at me & said I wasn't building a shower, I was building a CAR WASH!!
whoo hoo!
We've gone from about 10gpm max (using shower & body sprays) to 18 gpm with removal of the restrictors.
Why am I getting a sinking feeling that my next purchase is going to be a larger water heater... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
RonMar
Elite Member
Re: Ideas on framing out a \"step\" inside shower stall?
No problem if you take sea showers
Yep, 18GPM sounds like a car wash allright. It will also be about 5-6 minutes run time with the typically set temp on a 55 gallon water heater.
No problem if you take sea showers
Yep, 18GPM sounds like a car wash allright. It will also be about 5-6 minutes run time with the typically set temp on a 55 gallon water heater.dubba
Gold Member
Re: Ideas on framing out a \"step\" inside shower stall?
Just a few questions/observations.
In looking up your valve (34-124) @ GROHE America I find that this valve is only a mixing valve, not a flow controller, so will there be individual flow controllers on each head? How will you shut the shower off?
Also the valve will not need much support because the worst that should happen is someone bumping it.
I am also in favor of no water in the same area as electrical.
As for being on a well, You must have an incredibly good one as most of the people in this area are fanatical about water usage.
Do you have a septic system? I wonder what it's opinion of 18 gal/min is..
Just a few questions/observations.
In looking up your valve (34-124) @ GROHE America I find that this valve is only a mixing valve, not a flow controller, so will there be individual flow controllers on each head? How will you shut the shower off?
Also the valve will not need much support because the worst that should happen is someone bumping it.
I am also in favor of no water in the same area as electrical.
As for being on a well, You must have an incredibly good one as most of the people in this area are fanatical about water usage.
Do you have a septic system? I wonder what it's opinion of 18 gal/min is..
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Re: Ideas on framing out a \"step\" inside shower stall?
Some interesting points dubba...
You are correct in it's a mixing valve. It's a temperature balanced valve so it will only affect the temp of the water flowing through it.
Because we're going to have 3 'systems', I did not want a traditional diverter. It's all I need for my mother/father or in laws to come over & use it... only to be pelted from different directions as they try to figure out which knob is which.
So, to keep it "simple", I'll have the temp valve as you see in pics, and EACH circuit (three of them) will have it's own shutoff valve. Yes, it cost me more to do it but with the handheld on a different wall, I can put IT'S volume control over there and not confuse the issues with all controls on a single wall. My hope is by taking away that opportunity for someone to mess up, they won't need a book of instructions on how to take a shower /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Interesting point on not needing support, I wondered about that because of how I'm (currently) intending on plumbing it. If I indeed bring the water over from the NEXT vertical cavity, then I'll have three horizontal... no, correction, I'll have FOUR horizontal connections and that ought to be enough to hold it in place (or so I think).
Though we might move the electrical, the REAL answer is to simply put the temp control valve on the back left wall instead of the immediate left wall. Wife however, is currently vetoing that idea /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Not only would it seperate the two (water/electricity) BUT, would then give me a 6" wall to deal with instead of a 4" wall. She's overly concerned about thinking that someone needs to be able to reach that knob from OUTSIDE the shower. I told her it will tend to stay in the same position, only minorly adjusted as a hot verses cold person takes shower. She maintains her desire to have it in it's spot, which is right next to the electrical stuff. Her answer is to move the light switch further down the wall (away from door to shower) and I'm trying to tell her THAT is a more "day to day" inconvienece than the temp valve on back wall. Thus far, I'm losing that conversation /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
My well is rated at (I forget) either 102 or 108 gallons per minute! The driller said it was one of the best he's ever done /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Unfortunatly, they only put in a 10gpm pump. I thought that mandated a MAX flow to me of 10 gpm, but Gary Slusher educated me a bit more on that. I measured my output on the downstream side of my pressure tank and after my highly accurate calculations /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I'm getting about 33 gallons/minute after my pressure tank but before my whole house filter /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif. I've removed ALL the 1/2" pipe to this bathroom and replaced it ALL with 3/4" and the Grohe valve happens to also be a 3/4" valve so I'm taking 3/4" pipe up to as close as I can, to each water output device. I'll stop it down at the last moment when I have to.
Septic tank... hmm... in all fairness, I had not even thought of that!!
My drainfield is on a slope, there is only two of us living in this house, so perhaps it won't be an issue?
Some interesting points dubba...
You are correct in it's a mixing valve. It's a temperature balanced valve so it will only affect the temp of the water flowing through it.
Because we're going to have 3 'systems', I did not want a traditional diverter. It's all I need for my mother/father or in laws to come over & use it... only to be pelted from different directions as they try to figure out which knob is which.
So, to keep it "simple", I'll have the temp valve as you see in pics, and EACH circuit (three of them) will have it's own shutoff valve. Yes, it cost me more to do it but with the handheld on a different wall, I can put IT'S volume control over there and not confuse the issues with all controls on a single wall. My hope is by taking away that opportunity for someone to mess up, they won't need a book of instructions on how to take a shower /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Interesting point on not needing support, I wondered about that because of how I'm (currently) intending on plumbing it. If I indeed bring the water over from the NEXT vertical cavity, then I'll have three horizontal... no, correction, I'll have FOUR horizontal connections and that ought to be enough to hold it in place (or so I think).
Though we might move the electrical, the REAL answer is to simply put the temp control valve on the back left wall instead of the immediate left wall. Wife however, is currently vetoing that idea /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Not only would it seperate the two (water/electricity) BUT, would then give me a 6" wall to deal with instead of a 4" wall. She's overly concerned about thinking that someone needs to be able to reach that knob from OUTSIDE the shower. I told her it will tend to stay in the same position, only minorly adjusted as a hot verses cold person takes shower. She maintains her desire to have it in it's spot, which is right next to the electrical stuff. Her answer is to move the light switch further down the wall (away from door to shower) and I'm trying to tell her THAT is a more "day to day" inconvienece than the temp valve on back wall. Thus far, I'm losing that conversation /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
My well is rated at (I forget) either 102 or 108 gallons per minute! The driller said it was one of the best he's ever done /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Unfortunatly, they only put in a 10gpm pump. I thought that mandated a MAX flow to me of 10 gpm, but Gary Slusher educated me a bit more on that. I measured my output on the downstream side of my pressure tank and after my highly accurate calculations /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I'm getting about 33 gallons/minute after my pressure tank but before my whole house filter /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif. I've removed ALL the 1/2" pipe to this bathroom and replaced it ALL with 3/4" and the Grohe valve happens to also be a 3/4" valve so I'm taking 3/4" pipe up to as close as I can, to each water output device. I'll stop it down at the last moment when I have to.
Septic tank... hmm... in all fairness, I had not even thought of that!!
My drainfield is on a slope, there is only two of us living in this house, so perhaps it won't be an issue?
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