imported rototillers etc

[nomad]

Now, the wisdom tells we will ramble?
OK, here are some differences between the knowledge and the wisdom:

Knowledge: A thing ALL SCHOLARS claim to have
Wisdom : A thing ALL PEOPLE claim to have

Knowledge: A thing that can have only zero or positive value
Wisdom : A thing that can have positive value as well as negative value (for ex., when a clever, intelligent person used his brain to steal money we can say he has a wisdom in negative direction)

I can tell more... but, I guess my this scientific fine art I made a few years ago can tell more... rambling the knowledge and wisdom in an infinite loop. Making it required a knowledge of knotting and selling such a small (less than 1 sq ft) at an international art gallery for $2,000 required wisdom. Hope you learned now the difference between the knowledge and wisdom that I have been educating people since my age of 14, the time of driving the tractor in the nights to pull the plows in rocky fields. Ps: by the way, is drinking milk of "Grizzly" an inborn wisdom or a gifted wisdom educated by a nomad? You can't tell that you don't have such a "knowledge."

 

[MossRoad]

Can we get back to the original topic now? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

What was it? Oh yeah,

<font color="blue">Does anyone know what %age of imported tillers come from Italy? If its all or high then how do they compare to each other? Is it the case that there are a few companies making the various brands to spec? (rather like MTD does w/ mowers & tractors) How would the imports compare to domestic models?

I'm in the process of looking around for a tiller and it appears that most of whats on the market are Italian (at least as much as I can determine). So, why would you import a tiller? Is it b/c of price, quality or features...or all of the above? How is it to get parts for the imports?
jimg </font>

Thanks in advance! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Egon]

MossRoad:

A reply perhaps not specifically answering the questions but anyway.

The Itialians manufacture many high quality items for a variety of industries. Some of us seem to downgrade the technical competency of the Itialians. Why I don't know but can make a guess which can't be posted.

As with most items quality and cost are directly related.

Egon

 

[HayDR]

Agric- Spain
Agritor- Spain
BADALINI- Italy
Befco/Rotomec- Italy
BREVIGLIERI- Italy
Bush Hog- Maletti- Italy and Maletti componants on HD models
CCM- Turkey
Caroni- Italy
Celli- Italy
Comeb/ Multivator- Italy
DeLMarino- Italy
FALC- Italy
First Choice- Italy
Gearmore- Italy
Howard- Spain & Italy
JD- Italy & Spain
King Kutter- China, Spain, Italy & Indian components
Krone- Germany
Kuhn- France
LandPride-Assembled in USA- Italian & Chinese components
Maschio- Italy
Maletti- Italy makes NH, Kubota,Woods, BH & Others
Muratori- Italy
Pallidino- Italy
Rhino- Italy
Sicma- Italy
Sovema- Italy

There are a hundred other MFG & private labels but these are a few of the most popular tillers sold in the USA.

 

[jimg]

Wow, about 80% Italian in whole or part. Thanx, this is exactly what I was looking for!

 

[nomad]

Hearing that Italians (and others) are fearing Chinese much especially this year after much price increase in raw materials especially in the steel prices. All users should better adjust themselves according to sudden change in the world implement market this year. Don't say that Chinese items are junks - China items have a broad range of quality from the lowest to the higher quality in the world and their world quality items are cheaper than anywhere. Them China have much more developed technology than Italy and any other country in Europe. Remember that China is now the 3rd country in the world who sent man to the space.

Also, see Landpride you agree in their good quality - that they have Chinese components. I can foresee Landpride will be buying Chinese implements this year more and more. Not only Landpride, but also many companies will be buying from Chinese MFGs, well, unless so-called global-free-market supporters change their colors and become iron-curtain-market supporters this year and form groups to block Chinese. They just change their colors too much.

 

[MossRoad]

Egon, I've got a guess, too. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I am surprised by the number of Italian tillers. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

CCI, thanks for the information. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Egon]

There are those who will say the most advaced technical college in the world resides in India.

Egon

 

[nomad]

India and Pakistan = 1 billion pop. and their technology levels have gone really up in last years due to some top world scholars from there. Add China (1.5 billion now?) - Then, a total of 2.5 billion, almost half of the world population there in this region. And, this region is running really fast on the technology road and their cumulative labor costs (not individual labor cost, a cost which isn't different than the world average) are really low and this "low cumulative labor cost" is making things, products there cheaper. Material cost? In fact, there is no such a thing like material cost even though it's not being taught at the schools/universities. All production costs on the earth are a summation of labor costs only if we look at from a bigger, global picture. Materials are for free on the lands. Now, I put my nose into the field of economists too /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue"> Now, I put my nose into the field of economists too </font>

Hee hee. Good one, Nomad /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I never thought of it in terms of labor cost only. But the question still remains...

Why are so many tillers that are made in Italy as compared to the rest of the world imported to the USA?

 

[Villengineer]

China doesn't have to have an individual labor cost lower than the rest of the world, just lower than the countries that import their products. China has the somewhat unique position of very low labor cost AND a stable government and culture. Therefore companies, both internal and external, are willing to set up manufacturing operations. No matter how you want to skew the facts, the "individual" cost of labor is still very low compared to countries such as the US, most of Europe, and Japan. I also won't go into the details of the amount of corporate espionage and downright ignoring of international patents/copyrights that China and other countries practice. It makes it much easied to advance when it's on someone else's coat tails.
Material cost is only labor cost? So rarity, usefullness, and/or location play no part in value? I think that your stance would be very difficult to defend.

 

[Egon]

Nomad:

Perhaps you could get some of those white haired MSc's to write a fortran program showing Royalty distribution for raw materials.

Egon

 

[jimg]

"Why are so many tillers that are made in Italy as compared to the rest of the world imported to the USA?"
Great question! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Been wondering that myself.

 

[HayDR]

We have the disposable income to purchase tillers and compact tractors to use them. Realize that the compact tractor users are driving the most of the tiller sales. Asia does MFG many tillers but they are of the rice tiller variety. In Europe many people use Troybuilt style tillers for their gardens.
After WWII, the Italians started using these tillers in their farming methods. The USA farming methods were much different than Europe because of the size of our farms. Tillers first were used in California and in the Northeast. As times changed, emigrants moved to the USA, and compact tractors showed up from Asia, the US consumers saw the advantages of tiller use. The Italians were already MFG tillers and they had a challenged economy so they could produce at lower prices than the US.

 

[JimMc]

Keep in mind that the number 1 tiller in terms of units sold remains the King Kutter II with over 12,000 sold last year. No one else comes close. So it is not a case of the Italian made tillers dominating the market as many would have you believe. As CCI has already said, the KKII uses a Chinese gearbox and side drive with Italian tines, but it is built in the U.S.

 

[nomad]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ... the question still remains...
Why are so many tillers that are made in Italy as compared to the rest of the world imported to the USA? )</font>

MossRoad, here is the real reason of why there are so many tillers from Italy;

Pieter the Smart since his days at KK(? )
Waverly the Agri-Suppy'er, active in agri-business for long time
and many other people like these two.
And of course, we should include some last generation Italian guys whose grandfathers were experienced in the US market especially in the olive oil business since last decade of 20th centry.

Because of all these many people from Italy, many people from the US having business relations within Italy and because of their appreciated efforts, you see most of tiller assemblies or their components in the US are coming from Italy. So, the ONLY reason why so many tillers from Italy is..; Human Effort! in marketing, developing, servicing, etc..

But, as I said before, China tillers will have a big big impact in the US market and all over the world on all farm related machinery&implement businesses including the tillers. If Pakistan and India join China in producing more tillers and if such a topic is opened here again in February of 2005, we will be asking this "Why so many tillers from China (and also India and Pakistan) are being sold here?"..

Nomad
the ONLY person
from Turkey

 

[nomad]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Material cost is only labor cost? So rarity, usefullness, and/or location play no part in value? I think that your stance would be very difficult to defend. )</font>

No, it won't be difficult.

Rarity is a "defined" value again by "human" (mind) effort that too can be included in "human labor" cost. Take my truffles here; Truffles are most expensive food on the earth because of their "rarity" - but, it does not cost me at all other than some searching work I spend to find them, so I am paying only "human labor" cost here.

Usefulness; Take the Gold, a material which can be very "useful" if it were used in electric transmission wires, but now it is a kind of ornament material or only a reference material rather than a utilitarian material. The gold was being used as a utilitarian material at early ages of metal era due to its easily shape-able characteristics. Then, humans "re-defined" the gold-use especially after Babylon-like high-society buildings appeared in the history. So, usefulness of materials, eg, the gold, can not be studied in the utilitarianism field anymore. Human-mind-labor effort (in negative direction) had done it again.

Location of the materials: You mean the material you need can be far away or at very deep places in the earth? Well, that material is just sitting there for free - But, you have to spend some "human labor" effort again to be able to get it from there.

As you see, all material costs too are actually a summation of human labor costs.

This is why China is able to produce cheap products WITHOUT lowering their individual "actual" labor costs
Their sum/cumulative labor cost is low due to their large population and considering that all material costs too are actually labor costs we can say their final price will always be cheaper.

 

[HayDR]

Since you, Nomad, are a "Natural Communist" you must understand the communist ways in China. Does this mean that Nomad will use Truffles as his currency since as Nomad says that China will rule all the business in the world? You once said you would be producing at lower prices than others in Turkey, are you moving to China? When did you get your PHD in Economics? Which dialect of the Chinese language do you speak?

 

[Junkman]

For the Kubota BX-22 trctor, which tiller would you reccommend??.... 42" or 49"??????

 

[Old_Hickory]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="red"> King Kutter </font> )</font>

Good value for your $$$$ in my opinion.