Impossible to buy engine parts!

Wichita_Dennis · Nov 25, 2004

I'm writing to clear up the confusion about the issue of availability of parts for Yanmar tractors.

Every dealer who is selling used Yanmars makes it sound like getting parts is no problem.

In some cases that's true. If you need filters or fan belts it's easy.

I found out the hard way that engine parts cannot be purchased at any price for my tractor. (FX24D)

Certain engine parts may be available for certain models, sometimes - not always.

I spent $10,500 on a beautiful, nice, like-new Yanmar (with guarantee) which ran for less than an hour before the engine shelled.

The seller ran for the hills when I asked him to stand good.

Now I know why. He couldn't get the parts to repair it if he wanted to!

I've spent a year trying to locate parts to no avail. I've called, e-mailed, posted, faxed until I'm blue in the face.

Ok, it's a grey market model and I should have known better. Ok, I was stupid for trusting the dealer. Ok, I should have sued him. I wish I could turn the clock back. Are there honest Yanmar dealers out there who would have honored their guarantee? Sure.

Some parts are available for some Yanmars, some of the time. I found out the hard way that mine isn't one of them.

Over and over again dealers post replies to my messages that parts ARE available. Then when I call them they cannot produce these parts for some mysterious reason.

If I sold used Yanmars I wouldn't want to see postings like mine! It might hurt my sales! Well, boo hoo! Find me the parts (at ANY price) or a rebuilder and I'll shut up. Ernie even posted flat out lies about me, in TBY public forum, in an attempt to shut me up. What possible motive would I have to keep posting messages trying to find parts if they REALLY were available so easily?

Not a single dealer or supplier, anywhere (I've called them all) can tell me where I can get the parts. Because my engine is not sleeved and will have to be bored, I have to locate oversized pistons and rings (as well as every other part needed for a good rebuild.) Not an easy order to fill, I'll admit.

Someone resolve this and I'll be THRILLED to update my posting and RAVE about the dealer who came to the rescue.

Otherwise, I'd CERTAINLY advise anyone agains't buying a used grey market Yanmar. What, I haven't spent enough time and effort to resolve this? A year isn't enough?

What a NIGHTMARE I've gone through! if I didn't have ten grand invested in it I'd push it into the river. I should have NEVER bought a grey market Yanmar. No one in their right mind shouldn't either.

Sincerely, Dennis

rtimgray · Nov 25, 2004

Hi Dennis-

I'm sorry to hear about your problems with your Yanmar Fx24D. I've had a F16D since 1999, bought with 492 hours on the meter with a tiller for $4,000 from a re-seller in his front yard. I've had the complete opposite experience from you - it has been an almost completely trouble-free tractor (change the oil, put in fuel, change filters, etc.). An of course, I have had no problem getting parts....

...because I haven't need anymore than "filters and fanbelts". I suspect that were I ever to need an entire engine overhaul, I would be hoeing the same row as you are right now...I honestly don't know if parts are available for the engine or not (but realistically, I knew that when I bought the tractor). I'm still not completely clear, even after reading your posts, if you were made aware by the fellow that sold you the tractor what you were getting into.

It does seem to me that you are the victim here (I mean that sincerely). However, I am a bit confused as to why you say you can't find what you need. Apparently Ernie did have two parts tractors with good engines - but you would rather buy the parts and have it overhauled, even with the ungodly high quotes you were given for rebuild pricing? I'm not really sure where you're going. If it were me, and my F16D crapped out, I would follow the same path you are on. With my options exhausted, if my only choice was a used engine, that is what I would do. If you have even a little mechanical know-how and a little spare time, you can do the engine swap.

I understand that you are sour on Yanmars (I would be too in your position) and you came to the right place for help. I just don't get why now you are insisting on rebuild parts as opposed to swapping the whole engine.

Good luck with your tractor - you have my sympathy. I would suggest getting the used engine, swap it in, and sell the tractor and start afresh, chock it up to a learining experience.

bruce1966us · Nov 25, 2004

I do not understand what problems you might be having. I have rebuilt the FX24 series a couple of times. You can get rings, pistons, rod bearings, main bearings, and a head gasket. Not sure about oversized pistons and rings. If your engine shop has a clue about what they are doing, They could bore the cylinder then sleeve it back to standard size. This is only done a couple thousand times a day.
On the other hand, you could continue to whine and cry and I'm sure your tractor will be up and going in no time!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Bruce Laten

YanmarFever · Nov 25, 2004

Dennis
I tried to help you out with an engine but have gotten nowhere. You can say what you want about yanmars & parts
but you arent fooling anyone on tractor bynet.
nuf said. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Good example of a vietnamese recond. yanmar gone sour.

blackd · Nov 25, 2004

Since I also have an FX24D I am somewhat interested. This site lists 2 3t84 engines: http://tractorimports.com.au/engines.asp
for $2375 each. Hope this helps.

Don

blackd · Nov 25, 2004

Sorry, just noticed that the site is in Australia. Contacting them may get U parts.

Don

Wichita_Dennis · Nov 25, 2004

Bruce:
Where is this shop you are talking about that can (1) bore & sleeve a non sleved engine and (2) get Yanmar parts?

I sure haven't found anyplace like that. If there really is a place like that I'd like to know.

Honestly, I hadn't thought of boreing & resleeving it so that I could use standard size pistons & rings. That sounds like a great idea! I wonder why, out of all the Yanmar shops & dealers I have contacted, no one else has suggested this?

If you have a shop, trained mechanics, access to Yanmar parts and experience in rebuilding Yanmar engines, my problem may sound simple to you.

As a consumer, however, it's not so easy. I've repaired motorcycles, trucks, tractors, heavy equipment and cars of every sort. I've never run into a situation where parts wern't available at SOME price - like I have with Yanmars.

Thank you for your suggestion. Hopefully, I'll locate someone who can machine this engine and resleeve it. Maybe the stock size pistons & rings will be easier to find. I don't mind waiting for them to come from overseas.

I'd sure prefer to just ship the whole tractor to someone who can do the entire rebuild.

Do you know someone who can and will do this?

Thanks. Dennis

shvl73 · Nov 25, 2004

If you have a shop, trained mechanics, access to Yanmar parts and experience in rebuilding Yanmar engines, my problem may sound simple to you.

If others can provide you with a source for the original spec parts, any competent machine shop could do the rebuild.
With your experience with working on other mechanical equipment, the engine removal/replacement should be fairly straightforward.

DavesTractor · Nov 25, 2004

Dennis,

I think part of the reason people aren't spending the time to try to find oversized pistons is that it is so much more feasible to just swap in a good used engine. It is rare for a Yanmar to fail like yours did, so if you bought a 1000 hour engine, you could probably still put several thousand hours on it. Why do you insist on rebuilding yours? It does demonstrate your point, but doesn't solve your problem. You bought a used tractor with a used engine. If you swap in a good used engine, you are back in good shape, not inferior in anyway.

I would expect that oversized pistons would be available through a rebuilder. It need not say Yanmar on the piston. If it was the correct type pistion, correct size, ring type, pin size and type, etc, then it would work. Perhaps a JD piston would work and be available oversize for one of there Yanmar engines. I bet it is, but it would require a lot of homework as there would not be a cross-reference. You would need to find similar displacement JD/Yanmar engines and then search on JD's parts website, or call a dealer, and see what is available. Then you would order one in and make sure it is correct. It wouldn't be simple, like installing a used engine, but I suspect it can be done. What if JD doesn't carry oversized pistons for there small tractors? Then your complaint losses some steam.

It is true that on the grays we sometimes are best to go used or aftermarket. It is also true that your dealer should be doing this legwork for you and you have not been treated fairly.

So you have made your point fairly well. You've suffered from a poor dealer. Now you need to decide if you want to drive your tractor around or stay on this campaign. And bashing Ernie will get you no where on TBN. He's helped too many people and provided honest service to many people for many years.

Rtimgray, I doubt you will ever need it, but I think I have a good F16D engine in a parts tractor.

Finally Dennis, I mean no disrespect in this post. I've been dealt with unfairly before and it is so tempting to lash out and spread the misery. It just doesn't accomplish much. I wish you the best.

Tractors4u · Nov 25, 2004

( I've never run into a situation where parts wern't available at SOME price - like I have with Yanmars.)

This statement would be correct if you had phrased it "With MY Yanmar" instead of Yanmars. You have a late model Yanmar and and there are not as many of those around as there are the 00, 10, and 20 series Yanmars. You were given a very viable option in the used engine Ernie has yet you act like someone owes you something. What gives?

bruce1966us · Nov 25, 2004

The closest one to me is Cumberland Machine in Winchester, TN. Also, there is Standard Motor Parts in Nashville, TN. I'm sure you can find a competent machine shop closer to you. If not, both of these receive and ship UPS daily.

Bruce

normde2001 · Nov 26, 2004

Have you personally inspected your engine and seen the condition of the cylinder walls? It seems to me that any dealer, (and that could be anyone with a couple of tractors for sale), who would say it takes $3,000 to swap an engine would certainly exaggerate, or mis-diagnose the condition of an engine. Are there, in fact, deep gouges in the walls, as claimed by "the dealer" or do the cylinders just need to be honed, cleaned up and re-ringed. In any case, from reading your profile, I would certainly think you should be fully capable of doing the work yourself.

kayssupply · Nov 26, 2004

You have every right to be upset. However, I would think it would help others to report who the dealer is that has done the wrong rather than blaiming Yanmar in general. I am pretty sure that block is used on many other Yanmar pieces of equipment. From what I have read, there are a few differences between excavator ,marine,and tractor engines. Mostly their bellhousing conections and throttle linkage.

LMTC · Nov 26, 2004

Reed,
Don't be so quick to condemn the dealer. 1. we've heard one side of the story from a consumer who has so far rejected several remedies suggested in this forum and who has used this thread to attempt to harm dealers in general ( If I sold used Yanmars I wouldn't want to see postings like mine! It might hurt my sales! Well, boo hoo! Find me the parts (at ANY price) or a rebuilder and I'll shut up. Ernie even posted flat out lies about me, in TBY public forum, in an attempt to shut me up. ) ; 2. the consumer himself acknowledged a 30 day warranty, with the breakdown occurring on day 32, after he let the tractor sit since delivery. We've been told he could find no one locally to pull the old engine and drop in another he was directed to by this forum for less than $3,000. I had said in a post on 11/1 that the owner came across as reasonable and credible. I no longer think that is a given, and would be cautious about pre-slamming a dealer who hasn't been identified or documented to have done anything illegal or unethical so far.

Inspector507 · Nov 26, 2004

Just keep in mind........a warranty is good for a certain time frame. If my Craftsman(or whatever brand) mower/tiller/weed eater/drill has a one year warranty and it crapped out at 367 days with me using it 3 times, would Sears fix it? Probably not. Now in the interest of good customer relations, it would make good sense for them to fix it. But as a dealer, he has to set a time limit, he can't warrant it forever. If 30 days is it, that's his limit. Come back to him in 32 days, and he may not even talk to you. I'm sure there are a few dealers on this forum that would help out a customer in some way or another, but this guy may have been abused before and has taken a hard stance by now. Maybe Wayne would realize that the tractor only had a few hours use on it and help the poor fellow out in some manner (I suspect he would). Others would too. Until we hear from the dealer, we'll never know the other side of the story.

vetteman · Nov 26, 2004

Hello I think at one time Yanmar made John Deere tractors it was 10- 15 yrs ago maybe that is an option Wayne

Inspector507 · Nov 26, 2004

They still do to some extent vetteman

Tractors4u · Nov 26, 2004

I had to go back and read how a tractor's 30 warranty could be no good after 1 hours use?!?!?! Supposedly he got the tractor home, drove around and parked in the garage until he finished with the dozer work and then pulled the tractor out for some finish work. I don't know how most people operate but I know with anything that I have I give my equipment, or car or truck a good thorough going over just before a warranty expires to make sure that there isn't a problem that needs free repair. Yeah the dealer could do some public relations work and give him a couple more days, but by no means is he obligated to do so.

Wichita_Dennis · Nov 26, 2004

Thanks everyone for the good advice! Finally I may be able to get something done.

To address a couple of readers comments:

I haven't posted the dealer's name because I don't think he meant to cheat me or give me a bad deal. I didn't report the problem until 2 days after the 30 day guarantee. In all fairness, he was in a corner - he didn't know how to fix this problem any more than I did. Some readers want me to hang the guy, others suggest it's all my fault. That's why I haven't named him. I'm not sure he knew what to do. He may have sold hundreds of Yanmars without any problems. When mine went bad he was unprepared.

I'm sure a lot of used Yanmar dealers have a shop, mechanics and years of experience. Although, I see that there are more and more part-timers who have figured out how to import tractors but cannot offer mechanical support should something go wrong. Their "Guarantee" is only good as long as nothing goes wrong. It's hard to know who is who when buying.

The engine swap would have been the best choice had I known earlier what I know now. The engine Ernie had is now sold so it's no longer an option.

I've spent a lot of time trying to match up my engine with another Yanmar - such as marine engines, without success.

The best and simplest choice seems to be to bore and sleeve this engine so I can go back to stock size parts - which probably are available.

The cylinder walls are deeply chewed up. I saw them myself.

Does anyone out there know if an engine that was not originally sleeved can be bored out enough (safely) to get sleeves in? I wonder if there is enough wall there to bore out that far?

Second, are the cylinder walls I have made of some sort of exotic alloy? Or are they just aluminum or steel? Will the new rings seat into the new sleeves? The rings I buy will be made to mate to the original cylinder wall material - not the new non-original steel sleeves. Am I overlooking something?

Thanks again. Dennis

Soundguy · Nov 27, 2004

( Where is this shop you are talking about that can (1) bore & sleeve a non sleved engine )

Sorry about your problems.. but I almost spilt my drink when I read this line.

For any good machineist, it should be ~NO~ problem to bore and sleave an engine. Ford N series tractors from 1939 to 1952 used 2 different sleaves.. .040 'thin' steel sleaves, and .090 cast iron sleaves. The thin walled ones are virtually NLA.. and when you rebuild one of the old models, standard procedure is to rebore the block to accept the still available thick walled cast iron sleave. Another common practice is to pull the sleave from a block using the cast iron sleaves.. and then run '39 mercury pistons in the bare block. This results in a few more CI.. and eventually damaging the block.. the trick is then to again.. rebore the engine for a standard or oversized sleave. Sleaves in these engines are dry..sometimes this overbore from the bare block gets into the water jacket. For a good machinest.. this is still not a problem, and many a block has been salvaged by a good machinist getting the sleaves back in and sealed up. You should be able to use a standard piston.. etc. Anothe rissue is cam.. on the flat head fords.. the cam ran bare in the block.. no replaceable bearings. It is very common to have the block custom machined, and custom bearing shells added to fit the cam.. is some cases.. this is the ONLY way to restore oil pressure to the engine ( short of a new block ) once the cam bearing clearances open up significantly...

So far this has all been based on a 'good' machinist.. now if you are dealing with a 'great' machinist.. then if it is made of metal.. and you have the money.. it can be repaired. The machinist I use for my antique work completely fabricates items for people that are NLA. He's made a replacement piston even.. machined it from an aluminum billet. MAde a 'like original' hydraulic manifold that went on the 53/54 ford NAA that lets you use a remote cylinder by tapping into the hyd top cover.. these parts are NLA since the 60's, unless you luck up and find some NOS parts. My steering shaft broke in my 8n.. the shaft , worm gear,and recirculating ballnut come as an assembly, with no individual parts available, and the assembly costs an arm and a leg when you do locate one. He machined me a new shaft to identical dimensions to the old broken one. Mated fine to the ballnut and bearing housing.. Has been working great in my 8n for a couple years now. Same with gear hobbing.. though it may be expensive.. if you have a custom gear need.. there are people out there that can do it.

I'd wager that if you fought hard enough, you could even repower that chassie with a perkins industrial engine... might take some bellhousing magic, but repowering for antiques using non standard engines was done very commonly.

Good luck on your quest. I hope you can locate the parts.. or a competent machinist to handle the critical issues.. like getting you sleaves to match your pistons, and getting your crank and cam journals to standard, or to an available oversize that you can match up.. even if it isn't a yanmar part.. etc.

Soundguy