Increased Ethanol %

[Ford850]

I saw a segment on a farm show the other day, discussing the most recent push to increase the percent of ethanol in gasoline. A few of the highlights from the show were:
-The ag community is split over this, with the grain producers pushing for it, while the rest of the ag community fighting against it.
-The marine industry will be one of the hardest hit if this does pass, due to the older engines that cannot handle the ethanol increase.
-The number of issues it would cause is much greater than originally realized, with engine repair shops providing staggering figures of parts replaced today due to ethanol. It does major damage to small engines, even the newest ones.
-The damage comes from 2 fronts. One from the ethanol destroying the parts directly. The other comes from the water that the ethanol attracts/absorbs/holds.

I was on the fence as to whether or not it created real problems with today's engines, but after seeing the small engine damage at those shops there is no doubt in my mind now. I was somewhat shocked to see that type of report coming from an agriculture show.

 

[RWEST]

Kinda' like the ULSD issue causing injector pumps on older engines to go kerflooey.. AT least there are some additives you can use to help that problem. What can you do to fix ethanol?

 

[ccsial]

Maybe some chemical engineer can come up with a process to remove the alcohol and sell a kit.

 

[Skyco]

It is relatively easy to remove the ethanol.
Problem is it is used as an octane booster, so you may be left with gas that you can't use anyway, IOW the 87 octane you bought may be become too low to run without preignition issues.

Around me there are an increasing number of stations that sell ethanol free gas, I buy from them for all my small engine and marine uses. Their gas should be formulated to meet the octane without ethanol.

 

[Duffster]

I hope they do go to a higher blend of Ethanol. I would gladly run a higher blend then what we can get now.

 

[stevem5215]

Just heard about this in the latest issue of Snow Tech magazine for snowmobiling.
Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment - HOME

I have nothing to do with them but it appears to correct some problems with the E10 gas sitting. Keeps the gas working correctly. Interesting reading.

Steve

 

[vsteel]

Ethanol does a lot of good in fuel cleaning things up, removing water from your gas (think Heet for you northerners) octane boost and emissions. The issue for me is when they try and move it past its current ratio and try and use it as a substitute fuel for gas. 10% in fuel has a lot of benefits but taking the ratio higher doesn't give good return.

 

[Patches]

Alcohol should NOT be in gasoline, unless being used as a means of ridding the fuel system of moisture, PERIOD

 

[The Haymaker]

Around me there are an increasing number of stations that sell ethanol free gas, I buy from them for all my small engine and marine uses. Their gas should be formulated to meet the octane without ethanol.

They won't be selling it for long. The sale of non-ethanol gas will be banned in 2010. We are in a transitional period now. You didn't think the oligarchy would leave a door open on this issue, did you?

 

[Duffster]

They won't be selling it for long. The sale of non-ethanol gas will be banned in 2010.

I havn't heard anything about that. Do you have a link to any info on that subject?

 

[DANOCHEESE]

I would like to find the source for the quote that the repair shops are busy fixing ethanl related issues?

I have ran e-30 for about a year in a 2001 ranger. No issues yet. I know a guy who runs e-85 in a 2000 f-150 no issues. When I talk to the local ford gargage they say the issues they see are the same issues they seen twenty years ago. Plain old crap in the filters.

Now I did have a weed wacker develop a fuel leak that I blamed on ethanol. Hey it was 6 years old and I used ethanol so it must be the ethanol that casues it.

 

[The Haymaker]

My bad, sorry. After a recent exam my head was stuck in a different mode. Low Sulfur Diesel will be replaced by Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel.

From wha I have read, the ethanol issue was piloted in some ways by the industry, and in others by state legislation made by those who knew nothing of what they were tampering with.

But, no fear all, the current oligarchy will soon be giving tax credits on kits to convert our rubber dollarr bills into elastics to wind up our American version of The Peoples Car.

Der!

E

 

[Duffster]

My bad, sorry. After a recent exam my head was stuck in a different mode. Low Sulfur Diesel will be replaced by Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel.

Der!

E

Yes, that would be correct.

 

[Ford850]

I would like to find the source for the quote that the repair shops are busy fixing ethanl related issues?

I have ran e-30 for about a year in a 2001 ranger. No issues yet. I know a guy who runs e-85 in a 2000 f-150 no issues. When I talk to the local ford gargage they say the issues they see are the same issues they seen twenty years ago. Plain old crap in the filters.

Now I did have a weed wacker develop a fuel leak that I blamed on ethanol. Hey it was 6 years old and I used ethanol so it must be the ethanol that casues it.

The show I saw was an agriculture show. They had interviews with several shops, and discussed the overall damage reports. The marinas were adding a lot of special filters to try to deal with the water that the ethanol attracts. They talked about internal parts rusting and other damage the excessive moisture causes when it is present on a regular basis. They also discussed the damage it did to rubber parts. I'm assuming this affects small engines, mowers, tractors, and boats the most since the fuel will be sitting in the tanks and engines for long periods without use. Trucks and cars would be fine using it, to a certain extent.
The thing that got my attention was that this was an ag show. Its sponsors and viewers would benefit the most from more ethanol use, and they were not supporting it. They talked like we have yet to see the worst affects from the current 10% ethanol use, since some areas had it sooner than others.

 

[vsteel]

I keep hearing about engine damage but I have yet to see anything. I have been running 10% in my 1991 GMC Sonoma since it was new, no fuel related issues, still on the original fuel pump and injectors. I have ran it in my chainsaws for the past 20 years with no issues, all of my motorcycles, my 1970 Nova SS since I bought it in 1988. I have run it in all of my small engines for decades and no issues. It runs in my 1974 Dodge W200 pickup and it sits for sometimes 6 to 8 months between uses. (I only use it to haul, its not a daily driver.)

I have never had any issues, all of the people I know running it have not had issues. Ethanol has been available for decades.

Personally I find that a TON of old information in the mechanics world keeps getting passed down as gospel. While I know ethanol used to tear the seals out of old cars and motors, the motors made in the last 30 years have been built to take it. Sure it took the seals out of grandpa's 48 Packard, but its not going to hurt your 1997 pickup.

 

[ihookem]

I never had a problem with ethonal gas. I do take my small engine gas and put it in the car if it gets old though. I have also run E-10 in my 25 merc outboard for years and thought it was non E gas so I let the tank sit all winter with gas in it. For 12 years I have done this and never had a problem with the gas. I had a problem with it this spring and it might have been the gas so I filled it up with the old gas in, changed the 10year old plugs and have not had a problem since. Just my experience.

 

[Opti-Mist]

Back when Brazil started converting to alcohol as a motor fuel we found that most of our issues were with rubber seals. Once the compounding was changed we had few other issues that related to alcohol based fuel. This is said from an ag equipment manufacturers perspective.

 

[KennyV]

I have burned my share of gasoline, from Ethyl and Regular days to our blended no lead ethanol gas.
I have used up to E85 in different engines and I've seen all kinds of scary stories usually 2nd or 3rd hand versions of the disastrous effects.
I have never had any problems with cars, trucks, tractors, Aircraft, boats, stationary engines, never any type of fuel related engine problems.

I think most stories are a reaction to our resistance to change coupled with a want to blame calamity on someone or group...
I do admit I don't much care for the smell of modern day gas. And it is nasty stuff to get on your skin. But it works in all my engines, well all but my diesel engines. KennyV

 

[dmccarty]

My DR Mower had a cap for the gas tank that has metal rods that are part of a gas gauge. The metal RUSTED when covered by gas. This was not good. Since it clogged up the fuel filter which made mowing a bit hard....

Called up DR and they sent me a new gas cap. Put it in and it rusted as well. I ended taking the gauge off the cap.

I am on my third fuel filter. I tried to clean out as much rust from the tank but there is still some in there that is going to take awhile to get flushed out.

The only thing I could think that would cause the rust was water attracted to the Ethanol.

Later,
Dan

 

[Patches]

E-10 is not a significant problem when a fuel stabilizer is used, along with keeping your fuel tank full. E-85 should be used only in modern engines with a Flex-Fuel designation; to do otherwise would be, in a word, UNWISE