Increased Ethanol %

[schiker]

Seems to me ethanol is bad for anything that sits unused for any appreciable time.

I like marine grade stabil for all gas cans and anything that is not driven regularly. The marine grade stabil is dark blueish and better for prolong storage of ethanol fuel than regular reddish stabil.

 

[zman007007]

Aound my house I worry more about my tractor, mowers, etc. getting old than I do the gas, or diesel. lol zman

 

[FlaDon]

We have bad problems with E-10 down here. It not only eats the seals in Non highway equipment, but it also settles out due to moisture. Marinas, lawn mower shops, county/state/federal agencies all have seen it. Humidity and ethanol don't play well with engines. And it will eat the potmetal carbs.

 

[Wineslob]

The ag community is split over this, with the grain producers pushing for it, while the rest of the ag community fighting against it.

That should raise a red flag. Anytime you use up a food source for fuel, you got problems.
Ethanol, as far as I know, does not raise the octane rating of gasoline, I tried it in a muscle car I own (SBC 415 "stroker" engine with 11:1 cr) diden't help at all. Trick gas sure did!

 

[dieselade]

the farmers grow more than enough corn for ethanol and to feed livestock....plus what is left over from the production of ethanol can also be used to feed livestock so it is a win win situation....plus, ethanol was not invented to replace gasoline, but to extend it so it lasts into the future. plus it replaaces that awful methane (fossil fuel) so that our air is at least a little cleaner....i can`t wait until we have e30 or at least more of a blend than 10%...so if anyone is afraid of it , then don`t use it...also, use common sense when using your small engines....

 

[Ken45101]

the farmers grow more than enough corn for ethanol and to feed livestock....plus what is left over from the production of ethanol can also be used to feed livestock so it is a win win situation....plus, ethanol was not invented to replace gasoline, but to extend it so it lasts into the future. plus it replaaces that awful methane (fossil fuel) so that our air is at least a little cleaner....i can`t wait until we have e30 or at least more of a blend than 10%...so if anyone is afraid of it , then don`t use it...also, use common sense when using your small engines....

Your logic doesn't work. If farmers grow "more than enough corn", then why did the price of corn jump (almost double) when government mandated ethanol? Furthermore, ethanol from corn takes just about as much fossil fuel energy to produce it as it itself produces (take into account fossil fuels used for fertilizer, tractor fuel, transportation fuel, drying, ethanol making process, etc.) Net, ethanol doesn't save anything except pork barrel votes.

Don't forget that the increased price of corn (due to the ethanol scam), jacked up prices for food in poor countries who can't afford the price increase.

Oh yeah, don't forget that ethanol REDUCES vehicle mileage.

 

[Duffster]

Your logic doesn't work. If farmers grow "more than enough corn", then why did the price of corn jump (almost double) when government mandated ethanol?

Demand. it had nothing to do with mandates, just the demand for energy in general.

Furthermore, ethanol from corn takes just about as much fossil fuel energy to produce it as it itself produces (take into account fossil fuels used for fertilizer, tractor fuel, transportation fuel, drying, ethanol making process, etc.) Net, ethanol doesn't save anything except pork barrel votes.

I have read several studies that have made that claim yet have not seen one that was the least bit accurate.

It could be true, just haven't seen any solid numbers.

Don't forget that the increased price of corn (due to the ethanol scam), jacked up prices for food in poor countries who can't afford the price increase.

The price of food reflected the price of energy more than the price of corn.

Oh yeah, don't forget that ethanol REDUCES vehicle mileage.

Not necessarily.

 

[NIdaho]

Ethanol has less energy in it than gasoline. Putting 10% Ethanol in gasoline reduces the amount of energy in that gallon of gas by some finite amount. Unless your engine can increase its efficiency, you will get less energy/power out of your engine when burning the same amount of fuel compared to using 100% gasoline. If you are getting less power/energy out per gallon, your mileage will go down.

The oil companies put the ethanol in because they get tax breaks for doing so. (it is in their economic interest to do so) Plus, putting in the ethanol means that folks will have to buy more gallons to go the same distance, or do the same amount of work.

The Corn lobby is incredibly huge. It is in the best interest (economically) of the corn producers to add ethanol to the fuel supply. However there have been numerous studies that have shown that ethanol from corn is not a net positive, it is a break even proposition at its best. In other words, it takes as much or more energy to produce the energy in the ethanol (most really good studies have shown that it takes more energy to produce the ethanol than is in the ethanol).

 

[Duffster]

Ethanol has less energy in it than gasoline. Putting 10% Ethanol in gasoline reduces the amount of energy in that gallon of gas by some finite amount. Unless your engine can increase its efficiency, you will get less energy/power out of your engine when burning the same amount of fuel compared to using 100% gasoline. If you are getting less power/energy out per gallon, your mileage will go down.

Your forgeting that Ethanol has more oxygen in it. And it is cheaper to purchase.

The Corn lobby is incredibly huge. It is in the best interest (economically) of the corn producers to add ethanol to the fuel supply. However there have been numerous studies that have shown that ethanol from corn is not a net positive, it is a break even proposition at its best. In other words, it takes as much or more energy to produce the energy in the ethanol (most really good studies have shown that it takes more energy to produce the ethanol than is in the ethanol).

I would love to read a reputable study that can come out with a absolute conclusion. Most studies that I have read have had major flaws in them.

 

[bp fick]

BusinessWeek Article. Read it for yourself.

Ethanol: Myths and Realities

 

[Duffster]

BusinessWeek Article. Read it for yourself.

Ethanol: Myths and Realities

A little shy on facts.

 

[FlaDon]

Corn based Ethanol production produces about 1.25 units for every 1 unit of energy put in. It's not a good way to make it. Using Sugar Cane yeilds up to 8 units for every unit needed to produce it. But the US put a $0.50 per gallon tariff on Ethanol brought in from countries like Brasil.

 

[Cyclone Jake]

It is relatively inefficient to process corn into ethanol. Switch grass is said to produce much more ethanol per unit than corn does. There are other studies happening with other items that are more efficient as well. Also, at today's fuel prices, it is very difficult to make a profit processing corn into ethanol. A couple of years ago, quite a few ethanol plants were being planned or built around the state. When gas prices fell a year ago, many of those plants were scrapped or shut down because it was impossible to keep a plant running.

Even here in a big corn state like Iowa, non-ethanol gas is available at nearly every gas station. There is a subsidy for the ethanol that makes it about $0.10 less per gallon, but you still have the regular stuff for small engines, boats, and others who do not wish to use ethanol.

 

[dieselade]

I see this thread will never get anywhere....just like politics. the high rise in corn prices and food is/was hype...all paper money and emotion if you understand the way markets are moving up and down on a daily basis...and if you watch the chicago board of trade and nyse...I suppose making gasoline from cude uses no energy...ethanol production is becoming much more economical as time goes by...the farmers were suffering for several years with extremely low commodity prices. so low in fact we had to have help just to make two dollars per bushel...and several entrepreners saw a way to increase production of ethanol from corn to help out the farmers, environment, and a new market for all this corn they can grow. It was just sitting around and getting old.so use it up and grow more corn...

 

[bp fick]

I see this thread will never get anywhere....just like politics.

Ah yes,... political. Most everything is.

 

[Duffster]

It is relatively inefficient to process corn into ethanol. Switch grass is said to produce much more ethanol per unit than corn does. There are other studies happening with other items that are more efficient as well. Also, at today's fuel prices, it is very difficult to make a profit processing corn into ethanol. A couple of years ago, quite a few ethanol plants were being planned or built around the state. When gas prices fell a year ago, many of those plants were scrapped or shut down because it was impossible to keep a plant running.

Even here in a big corn state like Iowa, non-ethanol gas is available at nearly every gas station. There is a subsidy for the ethanol that makes it about $0.10 less per gallon, but you still have the regular stuff for small engines, boats, and others who do not wish to use ethanol.

Switchgrass will not work from a logistical stand point. IMO

 

[Ken45101]

A local power plant is testing switchgrass as a fuel to mix with coal. But they will only use 1-2% max. They are contracting with farmers to grow it.

 

[NIdaho]

Even here in a big corn state like Iowa, non-ethanol gas is available at nearly every gas station. There is a subsidy for the ethanol that makes it about $0.10 less per gallon, but you still have the regular stuff for small engines, boats, and others who do not wish to use ethanol.

I wish it was that easy ( to get gas without ethanol) in this part of the country (Pacific Northwest) almost every pump has a sticker that says "Contains 10% Ethanol" In fact, even the pumps that don't have the sticker contain the ethanol as it is mixed in at the large distributors so they can get the tax break.

 

[NIdaho]

Even here in a big corn state like Iowa, non-ethanol gas is available at nearly every gas station. There is a subsidy for the ethanol that makes it about $0.10 less per gallon, but you still have the regular stuff for small engines, boats, and others who do not wish to use ethanol.

I wish it was that easy ( to get gas without ethanol) in this part of the country (Pacific Northwest) almost every pump has a sticker that says "Contains 10% Ethanol" In fact, even the pumps that don't have the sticker contain the ethanol as it is mixed in at the large distributors so they can get the tax break.

 

[FlaDon]

A local power plant is testing switchgrass as a fuel to mix with coal. But they will only use 1-2% max. They are contracting with farmers to grow it.

Too bad they can't use cattails. They grow just about everywhere.