Ingersol Rand vs HF

Syncro · May 14, 2006

Well, after years of struggeling with pipes on breaker bars, I finally decided in my old age I should have a bigger impact wrench. So now what, turns out there are 3/4" and the behemoth 1" air wrenches. Now I anin't no teenager, and reason seemed to rule out the 1" wrench at ~35 lbs, so I started looking seriously at 3/4" drives.

Now the delema. I was at HF yesterday and they sell their own high torque brand calles 'Earthquale' which touts a torque of 1400 ft lbs maximum, wow! (IF that is really true /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif and to me that is a big IF) sale priced at $249.

Then there is the Ingersol Rand which the salesman tells me 'never goes of sale' but claims to only have a max torque of 1000 ft lbs. Just handeling the 2 tools clearly shows a difference in build quality. The China tool was sloppy, the driver had at least 1/8" lateral play and the bearins felt rough, like it was already pretty worn, and the air control was small and hard to adjust. Still, it had heft and there was that '1400# torque'

So whatr to do, spend another 50 bucks and get a better built tool that maybe, just maybe, might be weaker? Or go for the China tool. What do you all think?

EddieWalker · May 14, 2006

I have a Ingersoll Rand 3/8 impact wrench and Porter Cable. The IR is supposed to give me 400lbs but it's nowhere close to that. The Porter Cable has the same rating and it's twice the wrench of the IR.

Saying that, it still wasnt' enough to take off the lub nuts on my dump truck and backhoe, so I have an Ingersoll Rand 3/4 inch impact wrench for those jobs. It works good, but still struggles at time. Especially on the bolt holding the piston on really large hydraulic cylinders. In time it's gotten everything off for me.

I'm alsor running a standard 3/8 air hose and the large impact wrenches need a half in hose to get full power!! If I get to the point I can't get something off with what I have, my next move is a larger hose.

Eddie

Bird · May 14, 2006

( I'm alsor running a standard 3/8 air hose and the large impact wrenches need a half in hose to get full power!! If I get to the point I can't get something off with what I have, my next move is a larger hose. )

Yep, to get full power, you need the bigger hose and bigger quick couplers.

Bird · May 14, 2006

( I'm alsor running a standard 3/8 air hose and the large impact wrenches need a half in hose to get full power!! If I get to the point I can't get something off with what I have, my next move is a larger hose. )

Yep, to get full power, you need the bigger hose and bigger quick couplers.

Bird · May 14, 2006

I have no experience with the Porter Cable air tools, such as Eddie mentioned, and the only time I ever tried to get parts to repair a Harbor Freight air tool, I was unsucccessful. But the IR tools are good ones; my first choice, in fact. But like Eddie said, the 3/4" impact of either brand is not going to have full power unless you have big enough hoses and couplers to get the full volume of air through them.

I'd have serious doubts about the torque rating on the HF impact. And I don't know which model IR you were looking at with only 1,000 ft. lbs. (258?), but they make the 261 at 1,100 (it's the model I'm most familiar with, having repaired a few of them) and the 2161XP at 1,250. However, if 1,000 is enough for you, and I would think it should usually be, and you have the smaller hoses, have you looked at the IR2135, which is 1/2" drive and 1/4" air inlet and rated for 1,000. They're something new since I was working on air tools, so I've never seen one with a 7 vane air motor. It ought to be a dandy.

Bird · May 14, 2006

I have no experience with the Porter Cable air tools, such as Eddie mentioned, and the only time I ever tried to get parts to repair a Harbor Freight air tool, I was unsucccessful. But the IR tools are good ones; my first choice, in fact. But like Eddie said, the 3/4" impact of either brand is not going to have full power unless you have big enough hoses and couplers to get the full volume of air through them.

I'd have serious doubts about the torque rating on the HF impact. And I don't know which model IR you were looking at with only 1,000 ft. lbs. (258?), but they make the 261 at 1,100 (it's the model I'm most familiar with, having repaired a few of them) and the 2161XP at 1,250. However, if 1,000 is enough for you, and I would think it should usually be, and you have the smaller hoses, have you looked at the IR2135, which is 1/2" drive and 1/4" air inlet and rated for 1,000. They're something new since I was working on air tools, so I've never seen one with a 7 vane air motor. It ought to be a dandy.

ScottAR · May 15, 2006

I've got the IR 2131 ultra and it's a hoss for a 1/2" drive. My friend the bodyman has the quiet version (I forget the #) and it's so quiet your not sure it's working.

My vote is the Ingersoll... I'd go for one with a composite case if I wanted to afford it. Much lighter and they don't get cold after they run for awhile.

ScottAR · May 15, 2006

I've got the IR 2131 ultra and it's a hoss for a 1/2" drive. My friend the bodyman has the quiet version (I forget the #) and it's so quiet your not sure it's working.

My vote is the Ingersoll... I'd go for one with a composite case if I wanted to afford it. Much lighter and they don't get cold after they run for awhile.

Bird · May 15, 2006

Scott, the 2131 was the most powerful 1/2" going when they first came out. A lot of diesel mechanics bought them because it saved them from having to go to the bigger and heavier 3/4" impacts. But on Ingersoll's web site they don't list it anymore, so I'm not sure whether they're still making them or whether the 2135 replaced it. The 2131 did have a number of problems if it was abused; wasn't quite as forgiving as the old 231, so I repaired quite a number of them; usually the owner's fault rather than the tool's.

Bird · May 15, 2006

Scott, the 2131 was the most powerful 1/2" going when they first came out. A lot of diesel mechanics bought them because it saved them from having to go to the bigger and heavier 3/4" impacts. But on Ingersoll's web site they don't list it anymore, so I'm not sure whether they're still making them or whether the 2135 replaced it. The 2131 did have a number of problems if it was abused; wasn't quite as forgiving as the old 231, so I repaired quite a number of them; usually the owner's fault rather than the tool's.

HGM · May 15, 2006

Hands down, the IR.... When you need an impact you can count on, the IR will rarely, if ever let you down... I too believe the 2135 is the newest version(replacement)..

HGM · May 15, 2006

Hands down, the IR.... When you need an impact you can count on, the IR will rarely, if ever let you down... I too believe the 2135 is the newest version(replacement)..

Syncro · May 15, 2006

Well I got the IR. In fairness to the HF models, about 10 years ago I bought their then top of their line 1/2" wrench which served me well and was both tight and very powerful. Trouble is the 3/4" I looked at yesterday did not have near the build quality as my old HF 1/2" wrench did. There is something negative about buying cheap sloppy tools, know what I mean? And at $250 its not that cheap!

Anyways I got home and promptly put it to work removing the 1 1/2" rusted lug nuts on my dump truck. I tried to get these off using break free, 3/4" breaker bars with pipe extensions and my 1/2" impact, nothing would budge em. Well that IR spun em right off, and that was using 50' of 1/4" hose. I will make up a dedicated 1/2" hose/coupler for it, but I was impressed at the results using the smaller hose. I have industrial compressers so air volume is not a problem.

Bird, it is a 258, what do you think of that model, how does it compare to the 261? I paid $300 and I know I could have got one on line cheaper, but I needed it right away. I notice that it has an oil resovoir, that strikes me as unusual, is that a standard IR design feature? Any problems with that?

Eddie, my wife gave me a Husky brand 3/8" a few years back. Its light, well made and great for small stuff, but its also anemic. I still like it because its small and handy.

One last word on HF, their impact sockets are both cheap and good. I've used them for years and have numerous sets in all sizes. When on sale they are a bargain.

Anyways, thanks all for the helpful feedback, I guess I did the right thing with the 258. It sure looks and runs good, time will tell.
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Syncro · May 15, 2006

Well I got the IR. In fairness to the HF models, about 10 years ago I bought their then top of their line 1/2" wrench which served me well and was both tight and very powerful. Trouble is the 3/4" I looked at yesterday did not have near the build quality as my old HF 1/2" wrench did. There is something negative about buying cheap sloppy tools, know what I mean? And at $250 its not that cheap!

Anyways I got home and promptly put it to work removing the 1 1/2" rusted lug nuts on my dump truck. I tried to get these off using break free, 3/4" breaker bars with pipe extensions and my 1/2" impact, nothing would budge em. Well that IR spun em right off, and that was using 50' of 1/4" hose. I will make up a dedicated 1/2" hose/coupler for it, but I was impressed at the results using the smaller hose. I have industrial compressers so air volume is not a problem.

Bird, it is a 258, what do you think of that model, how does it compare to the 261? I paid $300 and I know I could have got one on line cheaper, but I needed it right away. I notice that it has an oil resovoir, that strikes me as unusual, is that a standard IR design feature? Any problems with that?

Eddie, my wife gave me a Husky brand 3/8" a few years back. Its light, well made and great for small stuff, but its also anemic. I still like it because its small and handy.

One last word on HF, their impact sockets are both cheap and good. I've used them for years and have numerous sets in all sizes. When on sale they are a bargain.

Anyways, thanks all for the helpful feedback, I guess I did the right thing with the 258. It sure looks and runs good, time will tell.
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

GeneD14 · May 15, 2006

( One last word on HF, their impact sockets are both cheap and good. I've used them for years and have numerous sets in all sizes. When on sale they are a bargain.
)

I thought so too...until last weekend. With my little weasely Campbell Hausfield 1/2" impact I cracked a 17mm and a 22mm HF impact sockets. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif They were the HF Pittsburg brand. Up until then I hadn't cracked one in several years.

GeneD14 · May 15, 2006

( One last word on HF, their impact sockets are both cheap and good. I've used them for years and have numerous sets in all sizes. When on sale they are a bargain.
)

I thought so too...until last weekend. With my little weasely Campbell Hausfield 1/2" impact I cracked a 17mm and a 22mm HF impact sockets. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif They were the HF Pittsburg brand. Up until then I hadn't cracked one in several years.

Bird · May 15, 2006

( Bird, it is a 258, what do you think of that model, how does it compare to the 261? I paid $300 and I know I could have got one on line cheaper, but I needed it right away. I notice that it has an oil resovoir, that strikes me as unusual, is that a standard IR design feature? Any problems with that? )

I don't recall ever working on a 258 so I'm not sure how long IR has been making them. However, I just looked up the exploded view and parts list for that tool, and it's a very common design, used more by Chicago Pneumatic (and Snap-On), as well as a number of cheaper and weaker knock-offs including Central Pneumatic, than by IR. There's certainly no problem with it. Just as a lot of our members prefer different brands of tractors, mechanics prefer different brands of impact wrenches. It's an entirely different design from the 261. The 261 has a hammer frame and one large hammer, and has a grease fitting in the back end. The grease is forced through the rotor to lubricate the impact assembly in the front end. The 258 has a hammer cage (big, heavy steel cup affair), 2 hammer pins, cam, cam release spring, etc. that are lubricated with SAE 20W or 30W non-detergent motor oil. That design just has a lot more moving parts, plus some oil seals to keep that motor oil from leaking out, but it works just as well.

I assume you got a manual with it that includes the exploded view and parts list, as well as maintenance recommendations. It should have come with the right amount of oil in the front end and may not need any added for years. If you do need to add, or check, the oil level, just remove that plug, set it down on its top, and turn it so the oil plug is at the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock position as viewed from the front or rear end. In other words, you want that front end about halfway filled with the motor oil. And of course, as with any of them, you apply air tool oil to the air inlet.

Bird · May 15, 2006

( Bird, it is a 258, what do you think of that model, how does it compare to the 261? I paid $300 and I know I could have got one on line cheaper, but I needed it right away. I notice that it has an oil resovoir, that strikes me as unusual, is that a standard IR design feature? Any problems with that? )

I don't recall ever working on a 258 so I'm not sure how long IR has been making them. However, I just looked up the exploded view and parts list for that tool, and it's a very common design, used more by Chicago Pneumatic (and Snap-On), as well as a number of cheaper and weaker knock-offs including Central Pneumatic, than by IR. There's certainly no problem with it. Just as a lot of our members prefer different brands of tractors, mechanics prefer different brands of impact wrenches. It's an entirely different design from the 261. The 261 has a hammer frame and one large hammer, and has a grease fitting in the back end. The grease is forced through the rotor to lubricate the impact assembly in the front end. The 258 has a hammer cage (big, heavy steel cup affair), 2 hammer pins, cam, cam release spring, etc. that are lubricated with SAE 20W or 30W non-detergent motor oil. That design just has a lot more moving parts, plus some oil seals to keep that motor oil from leaking out, but it works just as well.

I assume you got a manual with it that includes the exploded view and parts list, as well as maintenance recommendations. It should have come with the right amount of oil in the front end and may not need any added for years. If you do need to add, or check, the oil level, just remove that plug, set it down on its top, and turn it so the oil plug is at the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock position as viewed from the front or rear end. In other words, you want that front end about halfway filled with the motor oil. And of course, as with any of them, you apply air tool oil to the air inlet.

Syncro · May 16, 2006

Bird- Thank you for looking at the 258 vs the 261. I really never paid too much attention to the different models, but from what you say it sounds like the 261 is better and would be the minimum wrench to buy. Turns out that HF carries both, so I returned the 258 and will either have them send me a 261 or look around for better price. HF current price is $350 plus tax and $10 shipping for the 261, but that also includes a 9 piece 3/4" socket set. I'll post final results.

Syncro · May 16, 2006

Bird- Thank you for looking at the 258 vs the 261. I really never paid too much attention to the different models, but from what you say it sounds like the 261 is better and would be the minimum wrench to buy. Turns out that HF carries both, so I returned the 258 and will either have them send me a 261 or look around for better price. HF current price is $350 plus tax and $10 shipping for the 261, but that also includes a 9 piece 3/4" socket set. I'll post final results.