Ingersoll-Rand Loader-Backhoes

[MChalkley]

According to the May 2002 Equipment Today magazine, which I got in the mail today, on page 16, Ingersoll-Rand is introducing a new line of Loader-Backhoes.

Designated the 270, 370, 470, and 570 compact loader-backhoes, they range from 31.5 to 56 hp and feature dig depths up to 12 feet. Also among the feature of this new line are Kubota engines, four-wheel-drive and full-time four-wheel-steering, standard front auxilliary hydraulics and FEL quick-coupler (both Bobcat compatible), and optional cab w/heat, backhoe buckets from 12" to 40", rear auxilliary hydraulics, and multipurpose loader buckets.

They even showed a small picture of one. And yes, they're the same EarthForce machines, but it appears the name "EarthForce" has been dropped from their vocabulary.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color=red>the name "EarthForce" has been dropped from their vocabulary. </font color=red>

So, given your known affection for skid steers, I assume you'll pass on the parent name and ask Muhammad to include you in a Bobcat forum, in the hope that the Gatorboy and others in the Bobcat cult in Construction Equipment will think better of your EF-5, right?

 

[MChalkley]

No, in Popeye's famous words: "I yam what I yam."

On the other hand, my EarthForce ain't what it ain't. And it ain't a Bobcat. If it was 3 sizes smaller, then it might be a Bobcat, and if it was 4 or more sizes smaller, it would definitely be a Bobcat. But it ain't what it ain't. It's an EarthForce with an I-R logo on it. And if I were buying it today, it would be 70 better (a 570 instead of a 500), and just an Ingersoll-Rand. I guess. Oh well, it's still the same machine, made in the same factory, out of the same parts. Only the color is different. And mine's different, anyway (eh, Harv?)... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[wroughtn_harv]

That looks like a great small backhoe frontloader.

Actually it's about four thousand pounds lighter than a regular backhoe loader and it's at least thirty horsepower short of any skid loader of comparable weight.

Is it tradional drive? Differentials, transmission, etc. That would explain it not needing the high horsepower required by the skid steers.

I can see where you'd love it. It looks like someone finally decided the Terramite market needed a real tractor besides the JCB in the mix.

 

[MChalkley]

wroughtn_harv - First, a little background, in case you don't already know: EarthForce, the original company, was purchased by I-R, who, of course, also owns Bobcat. They've recently decided to split the EarthForce line into two parts - the machines that were EarthForce's 250 and smaller would go to Bobcat dealers, and the old 250 and bigger machines would be sold by I-R dealers and the existing EarthForce dealers. I thought both groups would keep the EarthForce name, but clearly that's not now the case, at least with the I-R units, unless the ad was incorrect.

The I-R TLB's are powered by hydraulic pumps and motors, but via more efficient differentials and transfer cases, and 4-wheel-steering, than the skid steer approach. Sufficient power is achieved by using a much larger motor than pump, which of course sacrifices speed, but since the motor is also variable displacement, you can get it back if the torque requirements allow. Besides a 2.something reduction in the differentials, there's also a 6 to 1 planetary drive at each wheel.

Another reason they don't have as high a horsepower requirement as the larger skid steers, despite having higher FEL and backhoe capacities, is that they don't offer the high-volume auxilliary hydraulics that the skid steers do.

I considered both the Terramite and JCB machines before buying the EarthForce EF-500. I had also seen the specs for the JD 110, though the unit itself hadn't been released. None of them can come close to the EF-500's specs for the money, in my book. The thing that really most amazes me is the pushing force it will generate with those 4 (relatively) small tires - much more than my Kubota L4310 with 19.5LR24 Michelin XM27's would. (I can't wait to see how much better it'll do when I get around to putting the XM27's on the EF-500.) Of course, if you get it in deep mud, it's out of it's element, but at least you've got a backhoe to drag yourself out with... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Ingersoll-Rand Bobcat A220 AWS...

Bobcat A220 & A300 World’s First All-Wheel Steer / Skid-steer Loader…

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bobcat.com/servlet/TurbineServlet/template/%2Cproducts%2CAWSIndex.vm>Spec & Video Demo…</A>

Hi Mark...

Did this unit come as a result of IR buying EarthForce...?
(I just saw an ad in one of my auction books)

 

[MChalkley]

Re: Ingersoll-Rand Bobcat A220 AWS...

JM III - No, it's a coincidence. In fact, when I was researching a replacement machine for the L4310, I visited a Bobcat dealer. (I may hate skid steers, but I try to have an open mind...) He showed me a copy of a manual for the new all-wheel-steer Bobcat, and this was just before the I-R purchase of EarthForce was announced. Unfortunately, however, the Bobcat doesn't have the ability to carry rear attachments, so I wasn't interested.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Ingersoll-Rand Bobcat A220 AWS...

<font color=blue>...I may hate skid steers...</font color=blue>

I basically know your feelings toward skid steers... but never really knew why....so...


Why...? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[MChalkley]

Re: Ingersoll-Rand Bobcat A220 AWS...

JM III - Whaddaya tryin' ta do, make me public enemy #1? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Well, here's a couple of quotes from previous posts:

<font color=red>In response to a message from Phatboy, mentioning the JCB TLB as an alternative to the EF and asking why I hate skid steers:</font color=red> "The JCB is about 40% more expensive and doesn't have HST. If you're a new member, you may not have been around for all the HST vs. whatever discussions, so you may also not remember my motto "No HST - no interest."

I hate skid steers because 1) I hate the skid steering concept specifically (in a tire vehicle) 2) I hate the skidding, and the damage it does to the surface 3) I hate the ingress/egress method 4) I hate the confined cabins 5) I hate all the operator lockouts 6) I hate the suspension, or rather the complete lack thereof 7) I hate only having one implement at a time 8) I hate the visibility. That's the best I could come up with in less than 3 minutes, and I'm sure I left out a lot, but that gives you an overall idea - like I said, I hate skid steers. I don't claim to have given them a completely fair shake, but I've used them a couple hundred hours, and I still hate them. No, that's not quite fair - actually, I loathe them."


<font color=red>In response to a message from Rat asking if I'd heard about the new all-wheel-steer Bobcat:</font color=red> "Yeah, I've heard about it, and looked through a copy of the owner's manual for one at a dealer. It's not a T190, though - that's the track loader. I forget the model designation of the new one, but it hasn't been formally announced yet, I don't think - that's supposedly going to be at the FL equipment show, whenever that is - soon I think.

It looks very interesting, and proves my point all along - that there are a lot of folks who aren't impressed by skid steers and won't be convinced to ignore their shortcomings because of popular opinion and millions of dollars of advertising. The dealer who showed me the manual did so after telling me at least a dozen times - in response to my list of the reasons I hate skid steers (he asked, so he started it) - "Well, there's a lot of people using them for what you're doing." Finally, I told him "Look, you're not going to convince me by telling me that lots of other people are using them. Most people don't think. They do what the dealer tells them to do, or what the dealer tells them "everybody else" is doing. Give it up. Either address the issues, or just listen." (I was nicer about it than the printed version of my statement sounds. Actually, I liked him - he was genuinely trying to be helpful - he'd just been to too many "dealer sales seminars" and I must not be his average customer. ) At that point, he listened a while, then said "Have you heard about the new Bobcat with 4-wheel-steering and crab steering? It hasn't been announced yet, but I've got a manual for it." You can imagine what my reaction was. "Why did you just spend 3/4 of an hour trying to convince me I'm wrong, then give up and prove to me that Bobcat corporate knows I'm right?"

All that said, the new machine is no EarthForce, by any stretch. Then again, I guess most folks don't need an EarthForce. The biggest difference between the EarthForce and the new Bobcat, other than capacity when you get into the EF-3 class and up, is the ability of the EarthForce to have a backhoe (or whatever else will attach to a backhoe/mini-excavator) follow it around all the time. Of course, there's some mobility/space requirement compromises in favor of the new Bobcat there, too. Nothing comes without compromise..."

Does that help? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Ingersoll-Rand Bobcat A220 AWS...

<font color=blue>...Does that help?...</font color=blue>

Uh ahhhh...

Mark...

I've got to go...

Before the bombs start dropping... /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[MChalkley]

Re: Ingersoll-Rand Bobcat A220 AWS...

JM III - Strange - I didn't think that was your style: to start something then bolt for shelter. Seems to me that was somebody else's game... /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[gatractorman]

Re: Ingersoll-Rand Bobcat A220 AWS...

In my opinion you done well staying away from the AWS Bobcat that picture in the above post is exactly what there good for, carrying pallets of sod across delicate surfaces, I like skid-steers as a general rule but this AWS Bobcat will not dig, even in a pit that has been dug up many times (loose dirt) I have been on them I tried it, its a dog, same basic machine as 863 except drive pumps and evidently much lower drive pressure due to the AWS feature, you cant get a bucket of dirt before it stalls.

 

[Woodbeef]

Hey Mark,

If you know of anybody looking for an EF5 there is one up here at a dealer with 290 hours,side shift and 4-1 bucket for $44,000 CDN with warranty. Is this a good price?

 

[MChalkley]

Woodbeef - That's not a bad price. I'm not sure what the exchange rate is these days but, depending on that, it may be an excellent one. I'll let a few guys I know who're interested in getting one know about it. Thanks!

 

[MikePA]

The <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.exchangerate.com>exchange rate</A> as of 5/24 was 1.535575 making that $44,000 CDN equal to $28,654 US.

 

[MChalkley]

Thanks, Mike. Based on that, it's a very good deal. And if it's got a sideshift backhoe, it may have other options, too, which would make it even better.

 

[Woodbeef]

Hey Mark,

It is at Kitchener Tractor about an hour west of Toronto #519-696-2568

Unfortunately, I do not think they close for moose hunting season though,Mark!!

 

[Fecteau]

I recently purchased a used EF4 and have found it to be a great machine. The only attachment I have installed is a thumb so far. I am concerned about parts and service now that Earthforce appears to be out of business and off the web as an inderpent company. The local dealers are dropping the product line and my conversations with Mr. Sweet at Earthforce haven't shed much light on the future. But hey, this machine only has 400 hrs on it and won't need parts for a long while!

 

[MChalkley]

Fecteau - I wouldn't worry about parts and service availability for EarthForce - pretty soon they'll be everywhere you look. Bobcat is working on some "Americanizing" stuff right now, but every Bobcat dealer is going to be able to get parts for all of them. I don't think they're quite sure how they're going to handle the dealer sales of the larger units, though. Originally, they said Bobcat dealers were going to sell 250-size on down and Ingersoll-Rand dealers were going to sell 250-size up, but I already know of a Bobcat dealer than can get 400 and 500 machines. The whole deal is still in a state of flux, though, so more changes are inevitable. But, either way, whatever they call them, and whoever gets to sell them, I-R and Bobcat are putting a lot of money and effort into the product line, so they're not going away.

 

[Fecteau]

Mark, thanks for the reassurance. Like I said this machine dosen't have many hrs on it and hasn't been beat. The previous owner sold it with a trailer after breaking his back in a snowmobile accident. At this time he is only able to move his left arm and head. The dealer he purchased it from said it was only worth 50% of what he paid for it! It is a strong machine and will grab and pick up huge rocks, the thumb makes it possible to to place them easilly. What is the thumb you have attached?