Insulating Pole Barn Ceiling

[KennyG]

KennyG: how are you securing your wall insulation sheets in place? I was thinking about screwing my first two layers (2.5 inches total) to the vertical furring and then using adhesive to temporarily hold the last layer (1.5 inches) in place between the the interior horizontal girts supporting the fire barrier material and the finish metal panel.

I need to take some pictures of this process in progress (and it's a lengthy process because I don't have too much time to work on it), but keep in mind that I'm working on an existing barn so I'm insulating from the outside to the inside. My bays are just a little under 8 ft. wide by 12 ft. tall (poles on 8 ft. centers. I'm putting a new treated 2x6 between the poles so provide a bottom nailer. I start out with a horizontal sheet with two vertical ones above it. Once in a while I need to put a nail through to one of the purlins to hold a sheet in place, but most of them are just pushed in and "friction fit". The second layer I start with two vertical sheets on the bottom and a horizontal on top. Then I put three 2x4 horizontal nailers between poles (at about 42", 90" and just lapped behind the 2x10 plate at the top of the wall.). I then fit the last layer of foam between the purlins. So far, I've only had to fasten one outside sheet in to keep it place (nailed at a angle into the post). Once the plastic and steel is in place, it's not going anywhere.

I've been using spray foam to plug up the existing screw holes and nay gaps around the bracing. The foam to foam seams are too tight to add any sealer. For my purposes, after the vapor barrier is added, the foam may be mostly wasted effort.

 

[Oldmopar]

I think you could just seal the first layer, after that is air tight it wouldn't let any air passed it. Also if you staple poly to the ceiling it would be a good idea to leave enough to hang down onto the walls a foot or two to complete the seal. There are glues that are made for joining foam, comes in caulking tubes. Just make sure it says its ok for use with foam, some construction adhesives will eat foamboard. Good luck.

 

[KennyG]

I think you could just seal the first layer, after that is air tight it wouldn't let any air passed it. Also if you staple poly to the ceiling it would be a good idea to leave enough to hang down onto the walls a foot or two to complete the seal. There are glues that are made for joining foam, comes in caulking tubes. Just make sure it says its ok for use with foam, some construction adhesives will eat foamboard. Good luck.

That sounds good but with the pole barn geometry, it's not so easy. The attached picture isn't very good, but the 2x10s at the top of the wall will be exposed, so the poly will actually go over the top of the 2x10 plates. I will then put a horizontal nailer on top of that over the poly and attach the edge of the ceiling metal to that nailer. Similarly, the wall poly will have to butt up against the bottom of the 2x10 plate and be held in place by a channel for the metal.

 

[TC65023]

All: I just got some great news from my insurance company underwriter. They will accept the metal wall and roof panels as a fire barrier with the foam insulation. No expensive or heavy drywall or OSB barrier will be required. Obviously this will save save me substantially on the insulation work. Thanks to everyone who recommended I pursue this matter further with my insurance company.

So I will be using metal panel over poly vapor barrier over layered polyiso in the exterior wall on vertical furring and on the purlins in the ceiling construction.

I finished installing my SDR35 underground downspout collection system late yesterday without hitting the building with the mini-backhoe....and its raining this morning. Great timing.....LOL!

I will post some pics soon......

 

[KennyG]

I'm glad it worked out. I thought it would because we get credit for metal barriers on industrial facilities.

I look forward to seeing your pictures. I will try to post some as I move forward, but I'm afraid I'll be going a lot slower than you will.

 

[TC65023]

Here are photos of my sitework before starting building construction

 

[TC65023]

I got my picture files uploaded to the tractorbynet server, how to you get them to show in your message? I tried the "insert image" thingie and put in the URL link, but nothing happened. What am I doing wrong?

 

[KennyG]

It is not at all intuitive. I use the attachments. First click the paperclip and "manage attachments" and upload the picture from your computer. Then when you click the pull down arrow by the paper clip, it will let you select the files you uploaded and will insert them.

 

[TC65023]

 

[TC65023]

Thanks for the photo insertion tips KennyG, works like a charm!

 

[TC65023]

The start of the building work, drilling holes, setting poles and erecting the big trusses

 

[TC65023]

Rough framing exterior door and window openings, starting the roof panel installation and a peek inside looking up

 

[TC65023]

beginning to close it up.

 

[TC65023]

Mardi and a old man inspecting, guarding against lumber thieves and resting....

 

[TC65023]

pretty much done on the outside except for final grading, seeding and connection of downspouts to UG drainage piping. Also picture of Riptorn, mouser in chief on





the project

 

[TC65023]

Since the last pictures were taken, I done a lot of the ceiling purlin installation work and have been scrounging for more polyiso foam insulation and lumber materials. I also moved four big piles of lumber into the building last week to begin the wall furring and the finish the remainder of the ceiling purlin work.

I will be taking more progress pictures soon when the sun comes back out.

I plan on putting in the water, sewer main and UG electrical service entry conduit in starting early next week and follow with the under slab baserock work.

 

[TC65023]

I'm getting ready to pickup the house wrap material for the exterior wall construction...the material will installed over the vertical wood furring.

Menard's has a wrap material called Typar which seems to meet my requirements. It's breathable, doesn't trap moisture but stops air infiltration. its available in 9 foot wide X 100 long rolls, which works with my pole spacing with almost no waste. Does anyone have experience with the material?

I intend to secure it with plastic coated staples.

 

[Oldmopar]

Im glad everything is working out well for you! Your building looks very nice, should be nice and bright inside with the tin installed, not to mention comfortable. My Dad and I used Typar on his 34x42 garage last summer, seems to be good stuff and ALOT less than true Tyvek. We used 8d nails w/plastic washers underneath to install it, but needed to because we sheeted the outside of the garage w/ 1" foam board.

 

[TC65023]

I'm trying to come up with a usable inside base detail at the bottom of my exterior walls. I think I want to use a CCA 2X6 or 2X8 base. It seems like the base material should just butt the posts and be a the same front plain as the exposed post surface. It makes the installation of the metal wall panel much cleaner. A continious base on the exterior face of the post would probably look better but complicates the metal panel install and results in a loss of .75 inches of floor space at each wall. Also the projected base profile would be harder to deal with a future base cabinet unit install.

Am I thinking right about this or do I even need a base? Running the metal panels to the floor line doesn't seem like a good solution. Does someone have a better idea?

 

[KennyG]

My solution won't work for you but I had some alternate ideas in the process. I've got a bunch of used T-11 type paneling (7/16") and I am installing it as wainscote about 40" high. I have a strip of 3/4" thick wood at the top of the paneling and the metal will just rest directly on that.

You could put a 1x2 (treated if you think it's necessary) at the floor and put the metal above that. It will probably only be 1/4" thicker than the ribs on your metal, so you won't really lose space.

The metal supplier will probably also have a variety of trim pieces and one will be a box section with a nailer that you can install against the framing and, again, the metal will sit right on top of it. However, that will still give you concrete against metal, unless you elevate the trim strip. I have treated 2x6s on the concrete between the posts, so I will have nothing else in contact with the concrete.

I think you are on the right track keeping the metal off the concrete. My exterior metal wasn't installed very well and the parts that were in contact with concrete rusted away completely, apparently in about 25 years.