Is evil or good really there?

wroughtn_harv · Sep 12, 2002

Since we've been having so much fun with some of the discussions I thought I'd add a favorite topic I have for discussion.

Is there this thing called "evil" and is it a force in nature? And is it, evil, balanced out by this other force of nature called "good"?

I'll start this subject off with my view. No, there is no thing like evil or good in the world. There is only perspective.

Hank · Sep 12, 2002

Is there this thing called "evil" and is it a force in nature

Yes, and yes. I find it hard to dismiss the Ted Bundy's and Jeffrey Dahmer's as "perspective", or "sick", or the solely the product of childhood abuse. For some of these monsters, "evil" is the only way to account for them, I think.

Wingnut · Sep 12, 2002

Is there such a thing as "evil"?

Hmmm .... can anyone who's ever seen a picture of Hillary Rodham Clinton ask that question is anything but jest?

dummy · Sep 12, 2002

Two Sat.'s ago I was almost positive there was evil lurking. Went and picked up my PHD from a friend. Hooked it up and noticed the 9" was at an odd angle, yep it was broken on the lower bolt hole. No biggie, I swapped in the 6". First hole, the auger snagged a root and went straight in, stuck. Ok, get the PHD unhooked, get some bars to turn it, no budging it. Great, go to plan 3, dig it out. The backhoe's battery is pooped out. Now, where are those jumper cables? Oh yea, son has them in his truck, went camping for the weekend. Ok, battery charger and extension cord time. Dark out, so let it charge overnight.
Sun. morning, it's raining! That's what canopies are for, right?
Backhoe started, auger removed, dug the other 20 holes in short time. Set my posts, job's done before you know it. {Good forces}

Sat. wasted, Sun. is a better day. You decide

Tractor_Barn · Sep 12, 2002

One cannot exist without the other.

Vince

wroughtn_harv · Sep 12, 2002

Yes, and yes. I find it hard to dismiss the Ted Bundy's and Jeffrey Dahmer's as "perspective", or "sick", or the solely the product of childhood abuse. For some of these monsters, "evil" is the only way to account for them, I think.

Do you consider them evil unto themselves or are they a product of some outside force?

Do you see them as super predators where all the qualities to prey upon others came together or do you feel they, for the lack of a better example, sold their soul to the devil?

TerryinMD · Sep 12, 2002

Do you consider them evil unto themselves or are they a product of some outside force?

/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gifNow this is a loaded question... talking about trolling!!! /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

I think that they could be either or perhaps even worse - both. I think that there are people who are just born evil. There is something in their personality that causes them to want to have "power" over people. The choice of the word "power" may be poor but I think that it sums up the major reason for evil doers. Forget the psycho-babble about having outside influences or being born evil. There are some that are just evil and enjoy doing what they do.

Forget about selling their souls to the devil. They prey upon the weak (or perceived weak) to suit their own purposes - money, drugs, getting one over on the man, following a bad dogma, leader, or belief, etc. Everyone has certain perceptions as to what is right or wrong. It depends upon your point of view. Republicans think differently than Democrats, Catholics believe differently than Lutherans, Shi'ites believe differently than Suni's, the list goes on and on. In general, most people and cultures view evil in the same general terms - something that is not socially acceptable and to be dealt with in terms that are, in most cases, harsh.

You have raised a difficult question. Are you sure that you're not a philosopher disguised as a guy who likes to build fences and work with metal. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Terry

Hank · Sep 13, 2002

You have raised a difficult question. Are you sure that you're not a philosopher disguised as a guy who likes to build fences and work with metal.

/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Terry, your whole response says it better than I can.

No Harv, I do not think they are solely the product of some outside force. I also think there is good and evil in all of us, and that we all fall somewhere on a continuum between the two extremes. Those few that are born purely evil will be evil, regardless of their environment. The environment may push them along, but what about all the other folks who suffer a similar environment, and don't end up as human butchers. I think there has to be some kind of inherant evil there to begin with.

wroughtn_harv · Sep 13, 2002

Morning Hank,

You said, "I also think there is good and evil in all of us, and that we all fall somewhere on a continuum between the two extremes. Those few that are born purely evil will be evil, regardless of their environment. The environment may push them along, but what about all the other folks who suffer a similar environment, and don't end up as human butchers. I think there has to be some kind of inherant evil there to begin with."

I agree with what you're saying but I don't./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

I don't believe there's evil or good. I believe there's just one thing and that's the perspective of self interest.

The difference between what you describe as good and evil is a simple matter of sophisitication on the part of the individual doing the good or evil.

The less sophisiticated individual will see harming others in the pursuit of their own self interests as justifiable and necessary.

The more sophisticated individual will comprehend that one gets more and further by working with accepted processes in the group.

An example would be of the two year old that is stingy and selfish versus the four year old that has learned the benefits of sharing.

We can't say the four year old was evil at two and is now good at four.

And would it be fair to assume the four year old is evil because they haven't acquired an appreciation for sharing yet?

A classic example for those looking desperately around for the wheels evidently I've lost would be rape versus consensual sex. The difference is understanding that giving to get works. The motivation is the same. It's the sophisitication of the individual that's the difference.

When I use the term "perspective" one scenario always comes to mind. The bunny and the bobcat meeting in the meadow.

Think about that. The bunny looks up and sees the bobcat and what's the first thought across it's mind? "God help me now" I imagine might be a good guess.

But what do you think the bobcat thinks? How about, "thank you Jesus, I'm so hungry."

There is no evil in the above scenario unless you look at it from the perspective of the bunny. I guess if there's an eagle sitting up there about a half a mile watching evil could come into mind for the bobcat too./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

This is life as we know it. It doesn't take much to extrapolate this bobcat bunny scenario to the little lady fumbling for her keys in the mall parking lot after dark. It's just she happens to be the bunny and the guy trolling for someone to rob is the bobcat.

You know when he shows up her heart stops and she's praying as you or I would be in her shoes for assistance cause she knows she's in trouble.

But from his perspective he's just been blessed because he's a predator not at all unlike the bobcat.

I think labeling this good and evil sabotages us. If we accept that some are predators and should be treated as such then we will take steps to protect ourselves from a known hazard. But when we label it we factor in character or purpose which clouds the real issues involved.

wroughtn_harv · Sep 13, 2002

Are you sure that you're not a philosopher disguised as a guy who likes to build fences and work with metal.

Morning Terry,

I think it's the same process. Good fences make good neighbors. That takes some thinking and being really light on your feet at times!/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif