Is it just me or has Kioti products really taken off?

[warhammer]

Your comments are right on the mark.
I looked at tractors and read everything I could find for 7-8months before pulling the trigger.
At the end it was down to a Kubota L4400 or the Kioti DK45SE. I went with the Kioti since it seemed to be a better deal by a ways although I realize those two models are not really aimed at each other.
What made it kind of agonizing is I am sure either tractor would do fine on my small farm and the Kubota dealer is only 7-8 miles away vs. the 75 miles for the Kioti dealer and I do not own a hauler at this point.
I just really liked the Kioti I guess.

Warhammer

I agree that Kioti's business model in the CUT market seems to be working well. They don't exactly lead in technology but they have mastered the art of building a very reliable well spec'd tractor and selling it at a price that JD and Kubota cannot match. The Kioti tractors are a tad less techno advanced but for most tractor buyers that doesn't matter. What they have demonstrated is that they have designed well thought out tractors, are responsive to customer wants (HST, independent PTO, good ergonomics, fully featured, great FELs, best warranty), that they have very good quality manufacturing and then they go and sell them for thousands less than generally equivalent green and other shade of orange tractors. Kioti's new DK90 actually is bigger than anything Kubota makes and much better priced than any fully featured 90+hp JD or NH. I know NH has a bigger market share and broader range but I wonder how long it will be before Kioti catches the third of the big three at least in the head to head market for equivalent models. The CK and new DK lineups are hard for any of the big 3 to match for value and as both the manufacturing quality and customer experience seem to be excellent it won't be long before even more value oriented buyers are comfortable joining the pack. JD and Kubota could put the hurt on Kioti by dropping their prices but there seems to be little evidence that is happening. The big three haven't even bothered to match Kioti's 4 year warranty. Mahindra seems to be the other main competition for Kioti but the red line up just doesn't seem quite as well thought out even though the Mahindra tractors are excellent. Not quite up with Kioti on ergonomics or features.

Other than a few rough edges with customer service/support, I think Kioti's major issue right now is their dealer network. They are working on it and have weeded out some of the smaller dealers but there are still not as many well established dealerships as you might like. No question in my mind that they have a long way to go before they catch the big three in that category.

Kioti also needs a SCUT like the BX to get entry level exburb buyers a choice of machine that is just a step up from a big box riding mower. The CK20 is quite a big jump for a first time tractor buyer and is really a bit big for someone with less than an acre or so who wants to do their own landscaping etc. The BX23/24/25 are quite brilliant in that arena and Kioti doesn't have anything to compete. It's interesting that they decided to bring out the big DK90 and the UTV before attending to the "big lawnmower" segment.

I think the analogy to Hyundai's success in building their share of the car market at the expense of the Japanese and US automakers is quite relevant. Enter with low cost, develop a reputation for reliability and value with successive generations of vehicles and then suddenly one day you are a player. Hyundai just won car of the year with their newest offering. Hyundai went from questionable to mainstream in just a few years so it is not hard to imagine Kioti following that path.

 

[srs]

Kioti also needs a SCUT like the BX to get entry level exburb buyers a choice of machine that is just a step up from a big box riding mower.

I also think they should come out with a small cabbed tractor (heat and a/c) to compete with the Kubota B3030 cabbed tractor.

 

[JoelD]

Island hit the nail on the head, reliability at an affordable price is key.

hyundai nailed it with the elantra which I think as key.

No regrets with my Kioti.

Joel

 

[Dargo]

Unfortunately for me Kioti is completely dead in my area. We had 3 or 4 dealers several years ago. They are all gone now. There is only 1 Kioti dealer even remotely close to me and he only sells a couple of them a year. With that being the case it makes it tough to consider one. Nobody wants to talk about resale, but I don't keep tractors for 100 years. With no Kioti dealers in my area and no Kioti tractors around, resale value around here is non-existent. The only way someone in my area could get rid of one would be to put it on eBay or something. Even then prices are pretty low if they sell.

That makes the trend in my little area of the country the exact opposite. About 8 to 10 years ago they looked promising around here. Now they are extinct in these parts.

 

[coobie]

Unfortunately for me Kioti is completely dead in my area. We had 3 or 4 dealers several years ago. They are all gone now. There is only 1 Kioti dealer even remotely close to me and he only sells a couple of them a year. With that being the case it makes it tough to consider one. Nobody wants to talk about resale, but I don't keep tractors for 100 years. With no Kioti dealers in my area and no Kioti tractors around, resale value around here is non-existent. The only way someone in my area could get rid of one would be to put it on eBay or something. Even then prices are pretty low if they sell.

That makes the trend in my little area of the country the exact opposite. About 8 to 10 years ago they looked promising around here. Now they are extinct in these parts.

Dargo,I have 4 Kioti dealers within 100 miles of me (southern Michigan).I used to have a 1998 massey ferg.1240 4X4 that I sold last year because the 3 local dealers all went out of business.I really liked the massey but no parts and service=SOLD.coobie.

 

[IslandTractor]

Unfortunately for me Kioti is completely dead in my area. We had 3 or 4 dealers several years ago. They are all gone now. There is only 1 Kioti dealer even remotely close to me and he only sells a couple of them a year. With that being the case it makes it tough to consider one. Nobody wants to talk about resale, but I don't keep tractors for 100 years. With no Kioti dealers in my area and no Kioti tractors around, resale value around here is non-existent. The only way someone in my area could get rid of one would be to put it on eBay or something. Even then prices are pretty low if they sell.

That makes the trend in my little area of the country the exact opposite. About 8 to 10 years ago they looked promising around here. Now they are extinct in these parts.

Dargo's experience is exactly what I was refering to as the Achilles' Heel for Kioti. There are some very fine dealers like Little, Michigan Iron, Wallace, KiotiDave and I'm sure many others but there are also a whole bunch of small uncommitted dealers who have left customers high and dry. My original dealer was such an operation...nice guys who ran a outdoor power store and Gehl skidsteer shop who added Kioti to their lineup but kept less than half dozen tractors in stock at any given time. About a year ago they dropped the line rather than keep up with Kioti's efforts to make such dealerships stronger.

Kioti has for a few years now been pushing these small dealers out but my impression is that they are not yet creating many new solid dealerships. Contrasting that to the situation with Kubota, JD and NH makes clear that even with good iron to sell, Kioti is still a ways from being more than a thorn in the side of Kubota and JD anyway. Kioti may do better in comparison to Mahindra and other good second tier manufacturers but without a solid dealership network they will never break into the top tier.

I don't want to stretch my Hyundai analogy too far but it is temping to see the parallel with another "copycat" Korean manufacturer who has done very well with the value strategy. I would not say that an Elantra is as good in everyway as a Corolla or that a Sonata beats a Camry or that a Genesis tops a Lexus head to head but when you factor in the relative costs it is easy to see why Hyundai has gained significant market share. Of note, Hyundai dealerships are generally not up to Toyota dealership standards but they are certainly more numerous and better established than many Kioti dealers.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Kubota, JD and NH makes clear that even with good iron to sell, Kioti is still a ways from being more than a thorn in the side of Kubota and JD anyway. Kioti may do better in comparison to Mahindra and other good second tier manufacturers but without a solid dealership network they will never break into the top tier.

at least I did not have to say it

The core problem for any of the companies trying to get a foothold in the market is the dealer network. There are patches where Kioti does well, as does Mahindra, but on a national basis they are not turning numbers that really seem to concern anyone.

 

[Dargo]

I don't want to stretch my Hyundai analogy too far but it is temping to see the parallel with another "copycat" Korean manufacturer who has done very well with the value strategy. I would not say that an Elantra is as good in everyway as a Corolla or that a Sonata beats a Camry or that a Genesis tops a Lexus head to head but when you factor in the relative costs it is easy to see why Hyundai has gained significant market share. Of note, Hyundai dealerships are generally not up to Toyota dealership standards but they are certainly more numerous and better established than many Kioti dealers.

I'm comfortable that IslandTractor knows that I'm not talking bad about the Kioti product at all; quite the contrary. I've spoken highly of the product several times. Unfortunately for me the new Kioti that appears to be a great fit for my needs, the DK90, won't be one I can consider. And, seriously, I do consider that my loss. My personal opinion is that Kioti is 'ready for prime time', but their dealer network isn't.

One an interesting note, I pretty well drive whatever I want to drive and I may very well buy a Hyundai Genesis next time around. Of course, I'll play it relatively safe and buy one coming off of a one year lease, but it's very possible that I'll go from my Lexus, Infinity, and Acura vehicles to a Hyundai. How 'bout dem apples?!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Unfortunately for me Kioti is completely dead in my area. We had 3 or 4 dealers several years ago. They are all gone now. There is only 1 Kioti dealer even remotely close to me and he only sells a couple of them a year. With that being the case it makes it tough to consider one. Nobody wants to talk about resale, but I don't keep tractors for 100 years. With no Kioti dealers in my area and no Kioti tractors around, resale value around here is non-existent. The only way someone in my area could get rid of one would be to put it on eBay or something. Even then prices are pretty low if they sell.

That makes the trend in my little area of the country the exact opposite. About 8 to 10 years ago they looked promising around here. Now they are extinct in these parts.

Same here.... We HAD a Kioti dealer in the area, but they were a fly-by-night bunch at best. He stuck with it for roughly 7 years, put quite a few tractors in the field, then went belly up just in time for the market downturn. Now no one seems interested in taking on the dealership effort in this area. Meanwhile we got a NEW (and BIG TIME) Deere dealer who is sending shock waves through the local market. A nearby Massey dealer stepped up his game, A multi-store Kubota dealership to the south and another multi-store dealer to the north both moved closer to this immediate area, and a local NH dealer decided to go after a bigger piece of the pie. There's only so many new tractor buyers to go around, especially so in the present economy.

What happened to Kioti's future in this area? What WAS a promising future is now trying to outrun a bad reputation. No dealer, no service. No service, no parts. No parts, no one wants to spend their bucks on 'em.

This situation is in no way a reflection on quality of product. It IS a reflection on the dealer who was here and is perceived as a reflection on the company policies for selecting dealers. You only get one chance to make a first impression. In the north-central Kentucky area (Louisville) and surrounding counties, that first impression sorta fell down an elevator shaft when the dealer left town.

 

[RollingsFarms]

Same here.... We HAD a Kioti dealer in the area, but they were a fly-by-night bunch at best. He stuck with it for roughly 7 years, put quite a few tractors in the field, then went belly up just in time for the market downturn. Now no one seems interested in taking on the dealership effort in this area. Meanwhile we got a NEW (and BIG TIME) Deere dealer who is sending shock waves through the local market. A nearby Massey dealer stepped up his game, A multi-store Kubota dealership to the south and another multi-store dealer to the north both moved closer to this immediate area, and a local NH dealer decided to go after a bigger piece of the pie. There's only so many new tractor buyers to go around, especially so in the present economy.

What happened to Kioti's future in this area? What WAS a promising future is now trying to outrun a bad reputation. No dealer, no service. No service, no parts. No parts, no one wants to spend their bucks on 'em.

This situation is in no way a reflection on quality of product. It IS a reflection on the dealer who was here and is perceived as a reflection on the company policies for selecting dealers. You only get one chance to make a first impression. In the north-central Kentucky area (Louisville) and surrounding counties, that first impression sorta fell down an elevator shaft when the dealer left town.

it's funny you mention that because it reminds me of a friend of mine. he's owned several car dealerships, a Kubota dealership, and now is jumping into the used car business. same thing has happened with ALL of his businesses....he'll do ok for a few years, then oneday you ride buy and *poof* he's closed up shop. next week hes opened up an entire new operation(went from cars to tractors back to cars). i consider the guy a wonderful friend, but i wouldnt buy anything from him if he was the only choice i had. he does all this by throwing his fathers money around, so he doesnt loose anything, but it does make me wonder if he's ever going to stick with anything. whenever i see his name on some new business, i think "well, it wont be long before he closes up this one too".