Buying Advice Is it possible to go too big?

   / Is it possible to go too big? #121  
   / Is it possible to go too big? #122  
Xfaxman, I'd be all aboard with one of those IF it had a rear PTO (or hydraulic functions) to operate a mower.
The 5610 has a PTO but it is only rated at 25 hp. The red PTO shaft cover is barely visible in this picture:
P1300001.JPG


I like to have the mowers out front, crab steering the 7' brush hog mowing over the edge of the pond:
P8030003.JPG


And the out front 6' finish mower:
PA080001.JPG
 
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   / Is it possible to go too big? #123  
Xfaxman, well, for sure that's a good thing: not all implements can be operated in a different direction (in Europe a lot of PTO implements are bi-directional). I never wanted a PTO-driven auger for fear of getting one stuck. I ran a skidsteer with an auger and there's now no way I'd go any other way than hydraulically driven: getting a large auger stuck 4' down w/o reverse is BAD. If the PTO were higher-rated you'd have sold me! (I need to run my 7' flail- wouldn't want to run it in the reverse direction!). NOTE: I was sold a long time ago, but still not enough money to buy one as an additional machine (still need to retain my CUTs).
 
   / Is it possible to go too big? #124  
   / Is it possible to go too big? #125  
I never wanted a PTO-driven auger for fear of getting one stuck. I ran a skidsteer with an auger and there's now no way I'd go any other way than hydraulically driven: getting a large auger stuck 4' down w/o reverse is BAD.
Yep, this is reversable:
PHD..JPG

If the PTO were higher-rated you'd have sold me! (I need to run my 7' flail- wouldn't want to run it in the reverse direction!).
Sell it and get a front mount flail:
flail.JPG
 
   / Is it possible to go too big? #126  
Some info on the Toolcat:

View attachment 719460
4 wheel steering:
View attachment 719461

Lift maxed out at 3,189 pounds with the engine idling.
View attachment 719462

There are many comments about not using a cab tractor in the woods, but those tractors won't fit through a 7' high overhead door like the Toolcat does:
View attachment 719464

OK. I'm sold. Can you tell us ballpark how much a new Toolcat with that PU box runs? It will also need the basic implements: FEL with bucket, 3pt hitch, some sort of blade, and a backhoe...maybe a grapple if the whole package isn't too steep.
rScotty
 
   / Is it possible to go too big? #127  
Xfaxman, if you had to decide on only one of your machines which would it be, the Toolcat or the V417?

I see that new Toolcats are around $74k. Used, of course depends on condition etc., are about 1/2 that.

I need to lift up around 2,500 lbs, so, for me, the Toolcat couldn't be a replacement machine.
 
   / Is it possible to go too big? #128  
OK. I'm sold. Can you tell us ballpark how much a new Toolcat with that PU box runs?
Depends on your dealer. Mine G series was $20,602 and the trade-in F series. in May of 2017. The one with the box is the model 5600 no 3pt hitch, but is available as an aftermarket add on.
It will also need the basic implements: FEL with bucket, 3pt hitch, some sort of blade, and a backhoe...maybe a grapple if the whole package isn't too steep.
rScotty
Comes with FEL and SSQA. Backhoe is front mount:
swing arm.png

Spartan_Skid_Steer_Swingarm_Backhoe_.jpg
 
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   / Is it possible to go too big? #129  
Xfaxman, if you had to decide on only one of your machines which would it be, the Toolcat or the V417?
V417.
I need to lift up around 2,500 lbs, so, for me, the Toolcat couldn't be a replacement machine.
A Toolcat could be a replacement machine for you.

I just tested the lift on our G Series with the crane scale at 3,189 pounds:
PB020019.JPG

Edit to clarify the picture. The scale is hanging from a chain on the SSQA and hooked to the hitch on the V417 that weighs over 10K. The scale is showing the max lifting force of the Toolcat loader at this boom angle. It will lift more weight at a lower boom angle.
 
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   / Is it possible to go too big? #130  
Yeah, with 100hp (or there abouts), the V417 is a beast- industrial rated. Just wish they had a PTO! Hoping that Merlo's Ag machines would start influencing US markets: and smaller versions would be awesome!

The boom reach and a cutter on the end is something that I'd really appreciate!
 
   / Is it possible to go too big? #132  
The boom reach and a cutter on the end is something that I'd really appreciate!
Me too ...particularly comibined with a crabbed steering (which I'd expect many telehandlers to have). ....would be handy for mowing perpetually wet areas while keeping the telehandler on dry ground.

There's a high probability if/when I get a second machine it'll be a compact telehandler given that to get an equivalent lifting capacity/height/reach of the smallest telehandlers in a tractor generally means going above 130hp. So given lifting (and to a lesser degree digging) is where I usually find myself being limited the telehandler would seem the smart addition.

Woudn't get rid of my current tractor though, just because I do use it for plowing the garden (with a 16" single bottom plow) -- and I have zero desire to switch to using a tiller for gardening given how many more problems with the soil they can cause -- but that's a different topic entirely.
 
   / Is it possible to go too big? #134  
Yep, costs more, but will do more. What does a tractor cost that has a loader that will lift 3,000 pounds?

Then how much is the airconditioned cab?

Tractors do not have 4 wheel steering that gives it crab steer.

What is it worth to you to not have regen, DEF and DPF?

What is it worth to you to have the small size for working in the woods and parking in a building with a 7' high door?

It is worth a lot to me to do what I need done without renting a bigger machine or paying someone to do it.
 
   / Is it possible to go too big? #135  
Yep, costs more, but will do more. What does a tractor cost that has a loader that will lift 3,000 pounds?

Then how much is the airconditioned cab?

Tractors do not have 4 wheel steering that gives it crab steer.

What is it worth to you to not have regen, DEF and DPF?

What is it worth to you to have the small size for working in the woods and parking in a building with a 7' high door?

It is worth a lot to me to do what I need done without renting a bigger machine or paying someone to do it.
You don't have to sell me. Now if I can just find a sugar momma to buy me one...
 
   / Is it possible to go too big? #136  
Yep, costs more, but will do more. What does a tractor cost that has a loader that will lift 3,000 pounds?

Then how much is the airconditioned cab?

Tractors do not have 4 wheel steering that gives it crab steer.

What is it worth to you to not have regen, DEF and DPF?

What is it worth to you to have the small size for working in the woods and parking in a building with a 7' high door?

It is worth a lot to me to do what I need done without renting a bigger machine or paying someone to do it.
Exactly. Although maintenance is more costly (that's just a fact of life with larger machines, especially industrial-level ones), one is usually less likely going to break one: but that doesn't mean that it can't happen; my equipment rental guy told me that a guy twisted a boom on one of his excavators- he had to eat the cost (the renter didn't think it was his responsibility to cover repair costs!), something like $7k! (and renters are breaking glass doors all the time - likely more expensive than my NX5510's, which was about $600; or, blowing out a hydraulic cylinder- for my NX5510 that was about $700- I knew someone who shelled out just that amount for a seal kit for the cylinder on his articulating loader's backhoe's boom).

The production years for the V417 ended in 2015? (pre Tier IV)
 
   / Is it possible to go too big? #137  
The production years for the V417 ended in 2015? (pre Tier IV)
Not sure when it ended. Did a quick search and saw a dealer ad for a 2017 V417.
They probably quit production when the V519 came out.
 
   / Is it possible to go too big? #138  
Interesting, Tier IV compliance was required starting in 2014 from what I can find: that seems a lot earlier than I'd thought.

I'm wondering if EGRs and EGR coolers were used to meet Tier IV [I would think that only interim Tier IV, but I dunno for sure].

What year is your V417? Does it use EGR components? (I think this is what Mahindra went with; still not sure how only this can meet Tier IV.)
 
   / Is it possible to go too big? #140  
Hello folks. Moving to a 58 acre property soon from the 'burbs (also escaping CA, but that is a different discussion) and am looking into getting my first tractor. About 28 acres of the land is previously farmed acreage that I want to keep knocked down and tamed by semi regular mowing/bush hogging. I have a full time job that is not farming and have no intention of farming the land myself, at least in the near future. Leasing some of the land to someone else to farm is something I want to look more in to. The rest of the land is very thick vegetation and trees. Solid wall of green type situation.

Besides the previously mentioned 28 acres of maintenance taming, over the next few years I want to potentially relocate, and certainly maintain, the gravel driveway into the property which is about 1500', create a gravel "road" to the more separated farm area for lessees to access that 15ish acres which will be at least another 1500', fell some timber and clear brush to make trails to the more wooded areas, potentially light grading for a future storage structure and swing set, and support of some heavier/specialized rented machinery for constructing a private shooting range with berm backstops in the back woods. Near the house I'd like to set up a sizable garden plot for the wife and kids to tool around in and some tree planting around the new driveway for future privacy.

My question is this: Should I start with a "learner size"? I've never owned or driven a tractor but from research I've seen that a fairly sizable machine would be ideal for my needs/wants. I've also gotten my heart set on a buddy seat so in a few years when I've learned to drive the thing and my very young children are a tiny bit older they can ride with dad. I think those moments will be priceless. I have no brand loyalty and I've yet to see how dealers around me treat their customers, which I've heard is a huge consideration. I've also got my heart set on a cab because frankly I think it will make chores like the mowing enjoyable instead of potential misery.

The machines I've been interested in thus far are the kubota m4d-071 and the tym 1104 and I'm mostly considering new instead of used. I'm slowly working my way though the other colors looking for other models of weight, power, and size to fit my needs but I've gotten a bit nervous about my lack of experience and piloting something this large and expensive without ever even sitting in a drivers seat. Any thoughts? Am I getting in over my head with machines this big? The terrain around my house is about as flat as a pancake which is at least in my favor and because I have a full time gig elsewhere, my off time, which I'm hoping a machine this size will save some of, is very valuable and more time I can spend with my young kids. Thanks for your help and looking forward to getting to know you all.
Paul, sorry the thread derail happened.

Did you get the right information from the many responses to make a decision?
 

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