Is sub compact big enough?

[check]

How do you think it would have fared without those key modifications? I wonder how many owners make protective changes to a new tractor.

idk, tScotty, my land is pretty flat, and I don’t go into woods too much. But I definitely would do the protective plates on the bottom again. That HST fan is just too delicate on the BX models.

Meanwhile, my BX 25 came with the backhoe, which I leave on all summer and I have used it on more than a few occasions. It is a great counterbalance for the FPL, and they take it off in the fall and put on a rear snowblower instead, which is also a great counter balance.

I also have some tight spaces around my place, so anything bigger than a BX 25 would not be suitable.

 

[Caninex5]

As if there aren't enough of these threads! Sort of an old question I know. I've been eyeing a newer tractor for a long time. Was hoping the market prices would correct themselves, but it don't look like that will happen soon.

I own 18 acres (no hills). 2-3 around the buildings, 10 acres field (rented out), 6 acres woods. I've got access to large tractors if needed for any ag type work. I cut 4-6 cords of firewood every year, but mostly not in my own woods. I've owned a JD 2010 with loader for 2+ years. It's had its typical problems, but I knew that going in. I only put 15-20 hrs on it a year, mostly cutting firewood and doing random loader work. The 3pt hitch is nearly useless so that has kept me from doing any brush cutting, etc.

If money and space were no object I would buy a 40 hp tractor and a SCUT as well. In reality, I've got 4 children to feed and clothe so $ is an issue! I'm mechanically inclined with 2 diesel mechanics in the family so I'm not afraid of used machines.

I really like the Kubota L30 series (31-43 hp) they seem like a good fit and value, but I'm not ready to pay that much just yet. I keep coming back to the SCUT class for 2 reasons: price and "handiness". I have to ask myself, what could a small tractor not do that I really HAVE to do? FEL lift height and capacity are really the biggest disadvantages of the SCUT. But then, it would take a 60+ hp tractor to really lift everything I would like.

A local Massey ferguson dealer has a used GC1705 coming in next week. I told him to call me when it does. With a tractor this size, I would probably use it 60-100 hrs per year. It bugs me that a larger compact tractor would sit in the barn unused much of the year. Purchasing a small tractor would also allow me to sell my Simplicity Sovereign garden tractor. (Have ZTR for lawn). Having 1 machine instead of 2 would be great. The Simplicity is mostly used for snowblowing (2010 is way too clumsy), lawn rolling, pulling sm trailer loads of mulch, and navigating the narrow trails in the woods.

Feel free to comment on any of the above. Several questions in addition:
How much will a GC1705 (or similar) track up a soft lawn or trail?

Will it run a 5ft brush cutter? Dealer says it will. By brush cutter I really just mean tall grass.

Is it dumb to purchase a tractor as a 2-5 year 'trial'?

PreacherM:

For what it's worth, I've walked in your shoes. 30 years ago we had 13 acres (20% lawn, 60% pasture, and 20% woods) with very limited funds and wanting to start our family. Used a Sears lawn tractor to mow lawn and borrowed a neighbor's tractor to periodically mow the pastures. (My neighbor was a wonderful individual.) Found a used Kubota B1750 (4x4) with standard transmission (300 engine hrs.) and over time added a 5' finish cut mower, a 4' rotary mower and an aftermarket FEL. Fortunately for me, I was able to use my neighbor's 5' rotary mower with the Kubota before buying my own rotary mower. In general, the Kubota handled the 5' rotary mower when mowing short grass (ankle high); however, it struggled (had to down shift to maintain RPMs) in tall (calf to knee high) thick grass. Several years into owning the Kubota I found an aftermarket FEL. REALLY enjoyed this addition to the tractor. FEL design made it easy to take it on and off. In general, the FEL was off during the summer months while mowing and stayed on during the winter months. My one recommendation regarding the FEL, buy the manufacturer's FEL, not an aftermarket one (biggest issue was parts). Fast forward 20+ years. While I loved the B1750 I found myself needing (wanting) additional HP (aka Tim the "Toolman" Taylor). Sold the B1750 (2600 engine hrs.) and some equipment and bought a Kubota L3800 (4x4) with FEL (skid steer attachment), hydrostatic transmission and R4 tires. LOVE the tractor, additional HP and hydrostatic transmission!! It's my lawnmower (6' finish cut mower), mows the pastures (5' rotary mower) and I added a grapple to handle the occasionally downed tree. Due to the easy on/off design, the FEL is off as much as it is on (greatly improves maneuverability). I miss the tight maneuverability of the B1750 but love the additional HP of the L3800.

My advice regarding a rotary mower, stay with the tractor manufacturer's recommended size. Lastly, it's not dumb to buy a subcompact tractor, use it for a few years and then sell it. The best piece of advise I was given 30 years ago by a tractor salesman was "Don't buy a tractor that doesn't have four wheel drive (especially subcompact and compact tractors)." Enjoy your tractor journey.

 

[etpm]

My first tractor was a 1939 Ford 9N. It came with a 5 foot Bush Hog and the PTO was rated at 20HP. My neighbor and I went in on the purchase and we used the tractor a lot. We not only did paying jobs with the bush hog, one of which was mowing 5 acres of Scotch Broom, which is akin to mowing 5 acres of steel cable, I also used the Bush Hog to mow down about an acre of my land that was black berries and alder saplings. The Bush Hog would mow down 2" diameter alder saplings. It took work and time but it would do it. I still have the 9N, it still runs well, and it's for sale.
The next tractor I bought was a Case 580CK backhoe. Even though I had never even sat on a backhoe I bought this machine to put in the septic system for my new house. All the reputable septic installers had a waiting list of at least 6 months, our house was done but for the septic system, so I gambled and bought the backhoe in order to do the septic system myself. The gamble paid off handsomely. I learned how to use a backhoe, my septic system install was so good the folks from the county bought their employees over to see how an infiltrator septic system should look, and I have used the backhoe a bunch since. The loader on the front is super useful and the shuttle shift forward and reverse is great. Not needing to step on the clutch is a huge advantage.
My most recent and probably the last tractor I will ever buy is a Yanmar YM2310. I bought it to replace the Ford 9N. The 3 point hitch on the Ford is the reason why I bought the Yanmar. The Ford requires the PTO to be spinning in order to raise the point hitch. Which means I have to have the auger spinning on my post hole digger in order to raise it. This is dangerous. I hate it.
The Yanmar has a 23HP PTO which is a little more than the old Ford's 20 HP PTO. So I'm certain the Yanmar could power the 5 foot Bush Hog. The Yanmar weighs a little over 2000 lbs because it has the aftermarket FEL on it. The machine is 40 years old and I am very happy with it. I have only put 33 hours on it since I purchased it last summer. It will get way more than 33 hours use this coming year. I don't know if the Yanmar is a CUT or a SCUT. I think it is classified as a CUT. Even though I have 10 or 12 acres only about 2 acres is cleared. Yet I find plenty of uses for the Yanmar.
The Case is way better when I need to move a lot of dirt or big rocks or when I need to dig big holes. Right now I am pretty much past the uses that the bigger Case is good for, but I am going to keep it for at least a little longer just because when I need it I need it. But now it is too big most of the time.
The Yanmar is the perfect size for me now. The front bucket does good work. The 3PH works perfect. Drilling holes with the post hole digger is easy using the Yanmar. The transmission is the "Power Shift", which works similar to the "Shuttle Shift" on the Case. The difference is that the Power Shift has 3 forward speeds for each of the 5 speeds in the main transmission whereas the Shuttle Shift is only a forward and reverse. Also, the Shuttle Shift shifts softly because it uses a torque converter and the Power Shift uses wet plate hydraulic actuated clutches for each gear. This makes the Power Shift speed changes a little abrupt but the clutching is automatic so only the shifter lever needs to be moved. You can of course step on the clutch pedal if you need to feather the clutch but it is not necessary.
The only drawback the Yanmar 2310 has is that being 2WD it lacks traction. I am in the process of adding wheel weights so that the rears will have more traction. The machine does have a differential lock, which my Ford does not have, and this helps some. I wish I had 4WD but I don't, so there it is. A HUGE advantage is the FEL. For me a tractor without a Front End Loader is a no go. When we bought the Ford it came with a crude FEL that we never mounted. When I bought the Case Backhoe I found out just how useful the FEL is. The FELs on my machines move way more stuff than dirt. I have clamp on forks for the Yanmar FEL and I am really happy I have them. I would not buy a tractor without a Front End Loader, especially if I could only have one machine.
If I was a farmer with a farm (of course!) I could see having tractors that just pulled stuff because I would have machines that lifted stuff and loaded stuff etc. But as a homeowner with 10 or so acres and a limited budget and so buying only one machine, a tractor, it must have the FEL. You need to decide on the size of machine.
I hope some of info in the long post above will help you decide what size of machine to buy. My Case is big but is too big now for some of the places I need to work on. The Yanmar picks up less dirt than the Case but it gets into spaces the Case won't. And like I said, the FEL picks up way more stuff than dirt. Like big landscaping rocks. I have dug up a bunch of big rocks and my wife is very good at telling me where they should be placed.
Cheers,
Eric

 

[Texbest]

Subcompact is never big we enough and not early as ambidextrous as you imagined it would be

 

[DieselBound]

Didn't read the entire thread, but that never stops me from adding two cents!

Need to specify how much money you're willing to spend and a have a prioritized list of tasks and their frequency. Don't count out renting stuff for infrequent needs: maintenance adds up; figure this when contemplating rental costs (most people don't figure this in).

I have two tractors. My first is my Kubota B7800. The B7800 is small-frame but with a 30hp engine: 23hp(?) at PTO. I'm perhaps 2,500 to 3,000 lbs with loaded rears and the loader on (which I've never taken off). Soft ground, so lots of weight can be problematic. I've got 40 acres and this property was an absolute mess when I got it. The B7800 has done a LOT of work. Cut 10'+ tall grass (slowly, of course). Dug a shallow pond. Hauled lots of stuff, either combined in bucket and in something off the 3pt (and or as in my avatar- while also dragging yet more crap [car/truck hood involved there]). Removed stumps: and in ways that are probably not for the feint of heart to hear/read. Nearly impossible to break. Runs a 5' RC fine: I have hundreds of hours doing so. I can use this tractor in really tight spaces and has the power to do get just about anything done that I set out for it to do. I needed greater lifting capacity is the reason why I bought my Kioti NX5510: moving around pallets of firewood; also wanted more PTO to sling around a larger mower now that I'm opening up more grass areas. Put over 1,100 hrs on it: bought it used with about 750 hrs. No frills, and the 3pt ("quarter-inching valve") sucks, but it's still workable.

I've been around here reading enough to see that a zero-turn is the best for mowing areas up to around a couple of acres or so. More, and perhaps more raw land (such as I have) and a tractor and RC (or in the case of my Kioti, a flail) starts to become the more attractive solution.

My B7800 was $13k in 2010: it's a 2006 I believe. Not exactly cheap but I have zero regrets with that purchase (which is why I continue to hang on and to use it).

 

[2manyrocks]

I've owned a compact tractor myself for years.

Compact tractors themselves have enough limitations that it is difficult for me to recommend that anyone buy anything less than a compact if there is any real tractor work to be done. Weight and ground clearance make a difference. HP makes a difference in how wide and tall you can cut in one pass. 5' is pushing it for a lot of compacts, and 5' isn't that wide when you have several acres to cut.

If you are just kinda doing yard work in a really big yard, then maybe a subcompact would be useful. But you need to go into it realizing its limitations. If you push these things beyond what they are realistically designed to handle, something expensive is going to break.

The guy who delivered my new L2501 today said the number one problem they see at the dealership is abuse from owners who have no prior tractor experience and push them beyond what they are designed to do.

And that's one reason I bought a new tractor instead of buying a used one and trying to save myself a few thousand dollars. I suspect some of the tractors I see for sale were too small and got used pretty hard before their owners decided to sell and buy something bigger. I can't tell by looking whether a FEL and hydraulic system has been overloaded. So...it was worth it to me to buy new instead of guessing what some prior tractor owner did to his tractor before unloading it on the next guy.

 

[kenmbz]

I use my SC on 6 acres, 4 woods and 2 open.
It has done everything I want, some things slower than I would like.
It fits down my trails, and in between my buildings, a CUT would not.

Need to fit the usage. I have a lawn tractor too for mowing the open areas.
Backhoe on tractor for trenches, drainage and stump removal.
Fell with toothbar for digging, moving, gravel etc.
Forks for a lot of tree work and getting stuff from a to b
Flail for maintaining the trails.

I know a lot of people on TBN use theirs for tilling jobs and working on small lots where anything bigger would damage homes/garages/sheds etc.

So don't dismiss a tool that works for many thousands, buy what you need and size it right.

I won't be moving to a CUT, my neighbor has one and is amazed what my backhoe can do.
And my FEL can lift pretty much the same as his.
He can do more pulling with the extra weight. But he could not fit where I go.

 

[IndyJay]

...Need to fit the usage. I have a lawn tractor too for mowing the open areas...
So don't dismiss a tool that works for many thousands, buy what you need and size it right...

You've also explained very well why we have 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4" drive socket sets.
While this principle is obvious with sockets, it may not be so obvious for new tractor users.

 

[airbiscuit]

I agree that SCUTs have their place. That said, I'd like to hear from dealers which happens more frequently:

SCUT owners trade up to a larger CUT
CUT owners trade down to a smaller SCUT

I'm guessing that budget drives many to choose a SCUT for their first tractor.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

I'm guessing that budget drives many to choose a SCUT for their first tractor.

It did for me.

 

[RoyJackson]

Feel free to comment on any of the above. Several questions in addition:
How much will a GC1705 (or similar) track up a soft lawn or trail?

Will it run a 5ft brush cutter? Dealer says it will. By brush cutter I really just mean tall grass.

Is it dumb to purchase a tractor as a 2-5 year 'trial'?

As far as tracking up a lawn, it'll depend on the tire type and how you operate. IMHO, R3 Turfs are best for the lawn, but may not be so good for field mowing (I've mowed my field with 2 tractors with turfs with no problem, but they aren't as puncture resistant as R4 industrial tire).

According to TractorData.com, the 1705 has 18.7 PTO HP. I ran a 5' cutter behind a Deere 670 that had the same PTO HP and did fine.
What I would be concerned about is sharps turns when the cutter is raised...the "tail swinging the dog" thing...
Also, you might need front ballast for when you lift the cutter

TractorData.com Massey Ferguson GC1705 tractor information

www.tractordata.com

"Dumb" is all a matter of opinion when it comes to tractors...only your opinion counts

 

[2manyrocks]

Before making a decision, compare the cost of a subcompact against a compact. Then think what it will cost in 2 or 3 years to upgrade in terms of the loss on the subcompact and the price increases on the compact over that time frame.

But if you clearly identify your needs and a subcompact fits those needs, all is well because you aren't getting trapped in the trade in/up costs.

 

[Texbest]

I agree that SCUTs have their place. That said, I'd like to hear from dealers which happens more frequently:

SCUT owners trade up to a larger CUT
CUT owners trade down to a smaller SCUT

I'm guessing that budget drives many to choose a SCUT for their first tractor.

Never had anyone wish they went smaller. I was tried to get folks to buy for what suits there most important task at hand. I can always get you set up with a rental or a contractor for the bigger stuff

 

[IndyJay]

Always buy enough tractor for the tasks that you will be wanting to perform...

 

[crazyal]

Maybe I missed it but does the OP want gear or HST? Along with a list of tasks (including how important are they) would be the first questions I would answer. A large gear tractor is going to be a handful in tight places around a house or in the woods. But HST is very different. With HST you get very precise movements and can move at speeds that could allow you to watch the grass to grow. They are two very different beasts. If you are thinking HST then I would step up at least one size in HP. I would also test drive at least one to get a feel for how different it is compared to your 2010. While my 4240 isn't small the wife will often use it for small tasks around the house to avoid dealing with a wheel borrow. Things like planting and weeding that you wouldn't normally think of using a larger cut for.

 

[lunasdude]

As if there aren't enough of these threads! Sort of an old question I know. I've been eyeing a newer tractor for a long time. Was hoping the market prices would correct themselves, but it don't look like that will happen soon.

I own 18 acres (no hills). 2-3 around the buildings, 10 acres field (rented out), 6 acres woods. I've got access to large tractors if needed for any ag type work. I cut 4-6 cords of firewood every year, but mostly not in my own woods. I've owned a JD 2010 with loader for 2+ years. It's had its typical problems, but I knew that going in. I only put 15-20 hrs on it a year, mostly cutting firewood and doing random loader work. The 3pt hitch is nearly useless so that has kept me from doing any brush cutting, etc.

If money and space were no object I would buy a 40 hp tractor and a SCUT as well. In reality, I've got 4 children to feed and clothe so $ is an issue! I'm mechanically inclined with 2 diesel mechanics in the family so I'm not afraid of used machines.

I really like the Kubota L30 series (31-43 hp) they seem like a good fit and value, but I'm not ready to pay that much just yet. I keep coming back to the SCUT class for 2 reasons: price and "handiness". I have to ask myself, what could a small tractor not do that I really HAVE to do? FEL lift height and capacity are really the biggest disadvantages of the SCUT. But then, it would take a 60+ hp tractor to really lift everything I would like.

A local Massey ferguson dealer has a used GC1705 coming in next week. I told him to call me when it does. With a tractor this size, I would probably use it 60-100 hrs per year. It bugs me that a larger compact tractor would sit in the barn unused much of the year. Purchasing a small tractor would also allow me to sell my Simplicity Sovereign garden tractor. (Have ZTR for lawn). Having 1 machine instead of 2 would be great. The Simplicity is mostly used for snowblowing (2010 is way too clumsy), lawn rolling, pulling sm trailer loads of mulch, and navigating the narrow trails in the woods.

Feel free to comment on any of the above. Several questions in addition:
How much will a GC1705 (or similar) track up a soft lawn or trail?

Will it run a 5ft brush cutter? Dealer says it will. By brush cutter I really just mean tall grass.

Is it dumb to purchase a tractor as a 2-5 year 'trial'?

I generally think you can use a compact or subcompact tractor if you keep your expectations realistic.
I have two and a half acres of mostly scrub brush and I have a Kubota BX 1880 which is the smallest of the small subcompacts.
I have a 5 ft brush hog and while it "will" work with the Kubota, the experience is not the best for the tractor.
Using that size of implement on such a small tractor you're at the maximum capability or beyond all the time.
Instead I found as some have mentioned, a 4 ft flail mower works perfectly with my small tractor.
I also use a land plane and level off a small road.
Additionally many small subcompacts can be bought with a belly mower or it can be added on later.
As far as lifting capacity, as I said if you keep your expectations realistic, I've not found much my little Kubota cannot do.
Keep in mind I'm not going around trying to lift pallets of bricks, Giant rocks, etc.
But it is perfectly capable of lifting buckets full of dirt, gravel, whatever I basically need to get done.
I think based on what I read you might be okay with the subcompact.
Unfortunately it seems that this is a not optimum time to buy a tractor as used prices are through the roof and new prices are not much better!
Good luck I'm sure that you will come up with the solution that fits your needs best.!
Paul

 

[check]

I agree with Paul. I have a Kubota BX25 for 25 acres, and it has served me well.

But no mmm. I mow with a 17 horse, 42” garden tractor.

 

[Vigo327]

I have a b6100 with an FEL which is about as small as SCUTs get.

I also have a B8200 with FEL, and a backhoe.

The B8200 is not much bigger than the b6100 in objective terms, but it's enough bigger that it feels substantially less maneuverable, and that's BEFORE you talk about the backhoe! The B6100 is so small it's fun, while in the same tight spaces the b8200 mostly does fit, but feels like a rolling liability and is nowhere near as fun.

The b8200 with the backhoe, which is as small as backhoes get, makes the thing feel literally twice the size, twice as hard to get in and out of any tight spot, totally kills the 'departure angle' (as in, it will drag its tail easily, and subject multiple hydraulic hoses to imminent danger in the process)..

I'm glad I have both, but while the B8200 is the more capable machine, I greatly ENJOY using the 6100 because it is so maneuverable. When i have a task both can do, i tend to choose the b6100 because it is more fun. The B8200 i use based on need.

Considering how differently I feel about using these two machines which are both pretty darn small by tractor standards, i do think it's valid to try and buy the smallest thing that will comfortably do a job. All else being equal, if you have any kind of tight quarters to work in, the smaller machine will let you enjoy the work a lot more.

 

[California]

I'm glad I have both, but while the B8200 is the more capable machine, I greatly ENJOY using the 6100 because it is so maneuverable. When i have a task both can do, i tend to choose the b6100 because it is more fun. The B8200 i use based on need.

Agree.

See my sig photo, below. The little one has power steering and powershift (shift 1-2-3 while moving) and as you note is more maneuverable, so it's the favorite. The larger one with backhoe, and make a complete stop for every shift, is only used when necessary.

 

[lunasdude]

I have a b6100 with an FEL which is about as small as SCUTs get.

I also have a B8200 with FEL, and a backhoe.

The B8200 is not much bigger than the b6100 in objective terms, but it's enough bigger that it feels substantially less maneuverable, and that's BEFORE you talk about the backhoe! The B6100 is so small it's fun, while in the same tight spaces the b8200 mostly does fit, but feels like a rolling liability and is nowhere near as fun.

The b8200 with the backhoe, which is as small as backhoes get, makes the thing feel literally twice the size, twice as hard to get in and out of any tight spot, totally kills the 'departure angle' (as in, it will drag its tail easily, and subject multiple hydraulic hoses to imminent danger in the process)..

I'm glad I have both, but while the B8200 is the more capable machine, I greatly ENJOY using the 6100 because it is so maneuverable. When i have a task both can do, i tend to choose the b6100 because it is more fun. The B8200 i use based on need.

Considering how differently I feel about using these two machines which are both pretty darn small by tractor standards, i do think it's valid to try and buy the smallest thing that will comfortably do a job. All else being equal, if you have any kind of tight quarters to work in, the smaller machine will let you enjoy the work a lot more.

Huh, did no know the b6100 has "less" horsepower but looks like it's a physicaly larger machine than the little BX.
Learned something new!
So glad to see the older Kubota's still going strong!
Makes me feel good about my BX!