Is this acceptable quality on a brand new Kubota?

[CBW1999]

Finally! I made it through all of the posts on this subject....At first I thought it might be a unique quality issue. Being the newer style arm, I am not that familiar. I looked at mine (older style) and the welds are all perfect.

So I went to "a dealership" today (I will NOT mention names)- to look at the new style arms on the loader. I was amazed to find similar problems with spatter and poor welds on one of the loaders present.

I do not follow product updates to closely, so I do not know how long these have been available. My only hope is that these are some of the earlier production models that are still circulating before being sold.

I would like to think that quality improved as they became more experienced- but i would agree that poor workmanship should never have left the assembly line.

I am going back tomorrow to take some pictures to include on this post- in hopes that it helps you resolve your issue.

 

[Tollster]

I could not help but to read the thread further, my previous statement was based on your opening pictures, but now that I have seen the close ups as mentioned in the above thread, I could not help but note the deficiencies observed without even viewing from various angles and various lighting directions. I would fire that hand on site, or he would be welding coupons for the next month.
From those shots I observe the following defects which would clearly be cause for failure under any code I know of. I am not sure if Kubota works to any code, but if they do and you can find out, it would be a clear cut case in your favor.
I see the following:
Undercut
Excessive concavity/ convexity
Lack of Fusion
Improper weld sizes
Cold laps
poor uniformity
Many times the poor uniformity which relates directly to excessive convexity and concavity are stress points, which tend to focus loads, promoting failure, this can also lead to cyclic failure, where as the continued loading and unloading the member creates a failure due to these focal points. Think of it as the split in a log prior to spliting, or a chip in a glass or stone. Its is where its most likely to fail.

Granted I mostly inspect welds to ASME code and certified in Nondestructive testing as well. And I would not be surprised if Kubota performs this on some of their welds, namely magnetic particle due to the saftety aspects of the machine, and the carbon steel properties which is inherently ferromagnetic, thereby promoting this inspection method.

I would visually looks over those welds closer, particularly at the start stop locations of the welds, as the potectial for crater cracks may be present. I do not wish to scare you in any manner, but IMHO it warrants a closer look as many times paint can mast visual indications, however is the paint is thin, it can still be detected with a magnetic particle yoke. If you have any questions or conserns, please PM me.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Noticed the same thing.I was disappointed KUBOTA came out with the curved loader arms and back hoe ,and cheapened the 24 up with all the plastic.I hope they go back to metal parts
ALAN

They did over a year ago. Its called the BX25. Its the only subcompact of any substantial market share with metal.

 

[IRNCTY]

I commented earlier in this thread that these welds were substandard. Upon closer inspection, after seeing the close up pics, I can say without any reservations. I would not accept this! I graduated from a vocational school and spent the next thirty years under a welding hood. These welds look like our first day (in school) with a stick, and I promise, they will fail at some point. I won't go into what all I see wrong, but the bottom line is, cracks will appear, and it won't be long. I encourage the OP to stick with this, and do not use the loader until Kubota reps inspect it. If when they do, they find it acceptable, I hope you will post that too.

 

[BANDAMAN]

Guys, thanks for the info....

I'd like to think I am a big enough man to admit my mistakes and also to learn from them.

In this case, I admit I would do things differently if given the chance.

1.) I would make sure the dealer understands what my expectations are before the purchase.

2.) I would make sure I took any time necessary to thoroughly inspect the machine with the dealer in a brightly lit area.

3.) I would make sure my dealer and I were in agreement on any issues that we found and if or how they would be handled.

4.) I would not leave with the machine until I was satisfied that everything was the way I wanted it, or that we had a written agreement on anything that might need to be cleaned, fixed, or replaced.

5.) If I did happen to find issues once I got home, I would not lump "minor" cosmetic issues in with "major" structural or quality issues.

Since we can't go back in time, all I can do is admit my mistakes and hopefully my dealer and Kubota can do the same, and they have already begun that process. I have been in contact with both and things are happening. I understand things move slower around the holidays and people are on vacation, etc. I suspect I will be hearing something next week or so. I'm a patient guy, I'm confident that this will work out.

In the meantime, my dealer has acquired a new wheel and tire for me to replace the badly scratched one. I will touch up the other wheel that is not scratched as bad. I'm very pleased that they have decided to do this. They recently got another set of wheels in on LTL carrier and saw how bad of shape they were in from the shipping. My mower deck has arrived (even though it was not due in until Mar) so I will be getting the mower deck and the new wheel tomorrow.

As far as the grease....I should not have mentioned it. yes, I do feel it was sloppy, and I used about a half roll of paper towels to clean the excess off and to actually be able to see the zerks, but I was also glad everything was lubricated properly. Why would I worry? because I often get home from work and jump on to clear snow or mow, and I do not want to ruin some clothes because I brushed up against a big glob of grease. I'm over it, no biggie, and wish I would not have posted that here I can get as dirty as anybody, but occasionally I need to jump on for 30 minutes to mow or move some snow and don't want to put on some coveralls.

The welding, I will not back down from. I wish I would have taken the close up pictures and posted those first. I realize now that the original photos do not capture the extent of how bad they are and also why I was frustrated that not everyone could understand why I was unhappy with it. Sometimes pictures just do not show the real thing. I think the loader will be replaced, if not, the booms and bucket will be. I would assume it is easier to replace the whole thing, but I'll work with them on what works best for everyone. Unfortunately this one slipped out, and I do not believe it is consistent with products Kubota is putting out.

Also, for those wondering, I was told to go ahead and use the loader while I am waiting and that it would not effect this situation at all. I have been moving snow and ice and have not broke it yet.

I'm a Kubota fan. I just helped convince my dad to purchase a new GR2110 lawn tractor, I see more new Kubotas in my future, and I will continue to promote them to others. I do feel they are a great machine and that is why I have purchased my second one. Depending on how you look at it, this loader either got to the "right guy" or the "wrong guy".

I have learned alot from everyone's feedback, and I can gaurantee that Kubota has received a ton of valuble data by reading what everyone feels on this topic. I work for a very large company with a great reputation, but we also occasionaly make mistakes. Hopefully we don't make the same ones twice and sometimes we need our customers to remind us what they expect in quality, performance, appearance, and price.

Mike

 

[pitt_md]

if you financed it, what your asking for is really much more complicated than you would think. If it was a cash sale its alot easier. Be persistant but nice, if you start getting ugly they'll think your unreasonable and you won't get anywhere.

11 pages about this! Wow, you guys really are a different breed. I don't think I've ever had a customer looking at welds before.

Well said! The loader will not fail based on the look of the welds. Put the thing to the test while it's still in warrenty. If it fails you got something to complain about. If not look before you hand over the cash next time.

 

[Keuka]

I agree with you Bandaman. Like you, I try to keep my equipment in like new condition. You went the extra cost for a Kubota and the welds you show are what you see on the first day of welding 101. If you hadn't picked it up they most likely would have used chains and binders rather than binder straps.

It's a shame to have to say that built in the USA isn't what it use to be. I'm old enough to remember what "Made In Japan" use to stand for. How things change! The Big Three US auto makers haven't a clue as to why they are loosing 1% market share each year.

 

[bandit67]

The Big Three US auto makers haven't a clue as to why they are loosing 1% market share each year.

That may have been true 10 years ago. But Japanese autos are no better quality than Domestics these days. I was a huge Toyota fan at one point, and had to deal with the beginning of the equalization of the playing field in the early 2000's.

The Japanese auto makers were still riding the wave of 'public sentiment' from all the years of hearing from those of us who bragged about the superior quality in the 90's. But that superior quality just doesn't exist any more.

The problem now with the Big 3 is the labor costs being nearly 2x more than the Japanese have to deal with.

Back on topic now...

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

That may have been true 10 years ago. But Japanese autos are no better quality than Domestics these days. I was a huge Toyota fan at one point, and had to deal with the beginning of the equalization of the playing field in the early 2000's.

Gosh I don't know. My wife has a 2007 Toyota RAV4, I just got a 2008 Saturn Vue. Its about as apples to apples comparison as you can get. The Toyota gets avg of 24mpg, I'm struggling to get over 16-17 with the Saturn and the Toyota has more HP. It also handles nicer. Its my biggest furstration right now. I just got it a month ago.

 

[Wheatland KB]

Esthetics are important when it comes to quality and so is customer satisfaction. I would be unhappy with that situation but would likely live with it if the structural intergrity were there. I would still feel singled out, dupped or taken advantage of though. Especially every time I looked at another new machine without those issues. I think that the price of these machines should "earn" you the right to make the first scraches, dents etc..

A side note: when my new Kubota was delivered I found a 10mm combination wrench with a little orange paint on it wedged under the rad bracket. Bonus.

KB