number two
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2007
- Messages
- 1,383
- Location
- Northern Lower Michigan
- Tractor
- Kubota B3030HSDC Kubota L2501HST
kubotafan-a most excellent comment.I can appreciate it more than you know.
Is this acceptable quality on a brand new Kubota?
- Thread starter BANDAMAN
- Start date
- Views: 77406
CBW1999
Platinum Member
- Joined
- May 11, 2008
- Messages
- 776
- Tractor
- Kubota 7510, Toro Groundsmaster 217D
Wow....lots of activity since I last posted.
I would never have thought about ultrasound as a method of looking at welds...as for the "angle grinder" comment and him not being a professional welder- please don't be ignorant, a lot goes on that we do not see.
Please do not get it wrong, I support the correcting customer service issues and the resolution of problems as soon as possible. Again, 2 and a half months is pretty quick in this scenario. I also think there is a high likelihood that another customers time line has been set back- waiting for their FEL now.
Yes the web is of great value in working on this, but it still involves many people in the process. I would hope that during Kubota's investigation, that outside (company) reps went to the plant in question to look into procedure and isolate the cause(s). Concurrently (and probably could have been done sooner) the customer should have been sent an acceptable quality FEL.
For sake of argument, what would the customers waiting for equipment to come off the line say, if the whole operational schedule was delayed as a part of this? The best of all worlds has to be factored in to dealing with issues like this. if the show was stopped every time to satisfy an individual- would anything get done in this world?
So...what are we going to talk about when the new loader is on and working??????
I would never have thought about ultrasound as a method of looking at welds...as for the "angle grinder" comment and him not being a professional welder- please don't be ignorant, a lot goes on that we do not see.
Please do not get it wrong, I support the correcting customer service issues and the resolution of problems as soon as possible. Again, 2 and a half months is pretty quick in this scenario. I also think there is a high likelihood that another customers time line has been set back- waiting for their FEL now.
Yes the web is of great value in working on this, but it still involves many people in the process. I would hope that during Kubota's investigation, that outside (company) reps went to the plant in question to look into procedure and isolate the cause(s). Concurrently (and probably could have been done sooner) the customer should have been sent an acceptable quality FEL.
For sake of argument, what would the customers waiting for equipment to come off the line say, if the whole operational schedule was delayed as a part of this? The best of all worlds has to be factored in to dealing with issues like this. if the show was stopped every time to satisfy an individual- would anything get done in this world?
So...what are we going to talk about when the new loader is on and working??????
CBW1999
Platinum Member
- Joined
- May 11, 2008
- Messages
- 776
- Tractor
- Kubota 7510, Toro Groundsmaster 217D
i don't know....but if we keep posting one liners.....
WaxMan
Veteran Member
"For sake of argument, what would the customers waiting for equipment to come off the line say, if the whole operational schedule was delayed as a part of this? "
Should we really be thinking about Kubota's whole operation schedule before we complain? That if we say anything the whole Kubota schedule grinds to a halt and the people that don't care about quality might get mad?
No disrespect but you're really over thinking this one.
C6rider
Silver Member
Give him a break, he hasn't got it waxed yet.
farmboy12
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Messages
- 908
- Location
- Benedict, MD
- Tractor
- Kubota M4900 FEL; New Holland TC30 MMM; Ford 1620; Ford 1520 MMM; John Deere X740; John Deere 455 MMM; Craftsman 19.5hp;;;;; Antiques: 1946 John Deere B; 1951 John Deere MT; 1952 Allis Chalmers B; 1967 International 140
Hardly any. "Your towing rigs and trailers" has about 400+ I think. And EddieWalker's "Creating a Lake" has over 1500 posts!!!
Many others that get up here, too.Kyle
CBW1999
Platinum Member
- Joined
- May 11, 2008
- Messages
- 776
- Tractor
- Kubota 7510, Toro Groundsmaster 217D
Not over thinking, just thinking another angle to look at and consider.
In this thread I've seen anything from the "get over it" attitude to- "let's overrun the factory and kick butt" and everything in between.
I am in no way minimizing the importance of quality being #1 in manufacturing or that customer service being compromised is acceptable. I am simply suggesting that middle ground has to be taken to keep everyone as happy as possible. That includes current and future customers.
Hence my comments that 2 and a half months is within reason to allow for the situation to be investigated and a PROPER resolution to be achieved IN THIS EXAMPLE.
I would agree (based on one of the many post's here) that the dealership should have undertaken a more proactive role in assisting the customer by doing all of the leg work with Kubota. Even better to have immediately swapped out the FEL for a "better" one.
A lot of discussion about this particular FEL possibly being a "Fluke" coming off the line...But I agree that it needed to be dealt with. But if any manufacturer stopped the line every time someone complained (to include the possibility of the occasional invalid complaint) Nothing would ever get done.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. I'm not saying I do not care about quality, but I do not complain about everything (the initial example here that was rescinded was a laundry list of problems found). That concept might lead to higher costs of the product and or loss of income for each time someone didn't work. I might get satisfaction sooner- but at whose price?
So you really cannot take just a small quote out of my statement and label it as over thinking. Much should be considered when making a customer service comment or complaint, and NO the convenience of the company should not be part of the equation. Going into a customer service related battle should be done with an initial plan, a reasonable expectation and a contingency plan.
Again- do not get me wrong, this specific issue had educated me a lot, and has caused me to pay more attention to some of these points on my own equipment.
In this thread I've seen anything from the "get over it" attitude to- "let's overrun the factory and kick butt" and everything in between.
I am in no way minimizing the importance of quality being #1 in manufacturing or that customer service being compromised is acceptable. I am simply suggesting that middle ground has to be taken to keep everyone as happy as possible. That includes current and future customers.
Hence my comments that 2 and a half months is within reason to allow for the situation to be investigated and a PROPER resolution to be achieved IN THIS EXAMPLE.
I would agree (based on one of the many post's here) that the dealership should have undertaken a more proactive role in assisting the customer by doing all of the leg work with Kubota. Even better to have immediately swapped out the FEL for a "better" one.
A lot of discussion about this particular FEL possibly being a "Fluke" coming off the line...But I agree that it needed to be dealt with. But if any manufacturer stopped the line every time someone complained (to include the possibility of the occasional invalid complaint
) Nothing would ever get done.For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. I'm not saying I do not care about quality, but I do not complain about everything (the initial example here that was rescinded was a laundry list of problems found). That concept might lead to higher costs of the product and or loss of income for each time someone didn't work. I might get satisfaction sooner- but at whose price?
So you really cannot take just a small quote out of my statement and label it as over thinking. Much should be considered when making a customer service comment or complaint, and NO the convenience of the company should not be part of the equation. Going into a customer service related battle should be done with an initial plan, a reasonable expectation and a contingency plan.
Again- do not get me wrong, this specific issue had educated me a lot, and has caused me to pay more attention to some of these points on my own equipment.
Well, I know many of you are dying to see the pics....I apologize, I have just been swamped. Contrary to popular belief, I do have much more going on then this loader soap opera.
As for the comment about showing my tractor.....I can just say this, the new loader wouldn't win any shows. It is what it is. I'm guessing my old loader on my BX2230 was welded by a MIG robot. It appears now that they hand stick weld these...Possibly due to the curves of the new style booms, or possibly due to better penetration then the MIG.
Obviously the first loader was a mistake, they changed some welding methods at the plant, probably had a few hiccups and mine got out the door. If Kubota didn't feel that it was a mistake, they would not have replaced it, no matter how many people commented on this thread. A few hundered or a couple thousand people on here, although embarassing, would probably not hurt their global business too badly. It also appears from reading this thread that a good chunk of you could care less what your equipment looks like....
A month or so ago, I was sent some pictures of loader booms that they proposed replacing mine with and asked if I approved. Just based on the photos, I told them that it was much better then mine and if it was the best they could do, then I would accept it. I also pointed out some deficiencies on that loader and asked them if it was the best they can do, if not, then I wanted them to get me the best that they have to offer. I really feel that its possible to have good looking, strong welds, and still meet production goals and costs. I was welding in high school better then what is on parts of mine and some other loaders I have seen. I'm not a professional welder and don't do it 8 hrs a day, so my comments are simply my opinion based on what I can do and what I have seen.
A few weeks later I was informed by my dealer that Kubota was building a new loader for me. At that point I was really optimistic that they knew they could do better and would take this opportunity to get me the best one they could knowing that pictures would go up here and it might shut everyone up...purely my opinion, not their words.
When my dealer notified me that the new one was in he said it looked great! Hey, now I'm excited, right?
I suppose I was a bit let down when I saw it Saturday. Maybe it was the wait, but I think this has been built up so much now on here and in my mind that it would never meet the expectations. You tell me...
Well, thanks to Kubota for stepping up and swapping my old loader out, I appreciate it. The new one is much better, it will work fine and I think I am done talking about it. I'm sure there will be a bunch more comments...some directed as me in a not so positive way. oh well.
I think we can boil this all down to people who care and people who don't. I was having a conversation with my retired parents about this yesterday....Many days I feel like I am in a dying breed of people who still actually give a crap about what they do, how they act, what kind of work they do and how they treat other people. On this site I do know there are a bunch more like me....I think we might be fading in numbers. You know who you are.....the guys that care what the yard looks like and if the truck is washed and the tires shined up...the guys who hang the tools back up, no matter what time the project was done..the guys who make their kids clean their rooms and pick up after dinner , etc, etc, etc. Sure, I'm off topic, but I really think everything is related, you care or you don't.
So those of you that think I made a big deal about this, your right... I did. and I can sleep well at night knowing that maybe I (along with the help of this thread) helped this huge company realize that some customers still care and you can't fool them.
I honestly don't think badly on Kubota...I loved my first tractor and its the reason I did not shop other brands when I purchased this one. Maybe next time, I'll take a look around and compare the competition a bit better. I will be sure to find a machine at a dealer that I accept and not order one in blind.
I already have been enjoying the heck out of my tractor plowing snow... I'm looking forward to spring and summer and doing some more projects. I'm sure it will be a fine machine for me for many years.
Even though this new loader won't win any beauty contests or welding awards, it appears that it will do the job and I will use it without fear of breaking it. I really did feel that the first one would eventually break....at the very least someone would have gotten cut on it.
So once again, thanks to Kubota for stepping up and swapping the loader out...was it your best? I'm not sure.
Now for the dealer...I have held back during this process until I made sure I was getting the loader swapped. I really have nothing good to say about them....If they had handled this properly, pictures would have never made it on the web....They ignored my complaints, and basically dismissed me in my opinion. Once I got nowhere with my salesman, I went over his head to one of the owners who responded to me via email with sarcasm and no suggested solutions other then telling me that Kubota does not swap out loaders for "cosmetic issues". In fact, the dealer told me "yea, we've seen better welds, but we have also seen worse" UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!
I picked up this tractor and hauled it one hr to my home...this was part of my deal when I was negotiating.. When I made that deal I thought it was for one trip to pick up my new machine. I did not know the mower would not be available and would require another trip. This dealer spent no time with me to go over the machine and its features.
When I made that second trip to pick up the mower, it was absolutely filthy...see pictures. I'm sure to some of you...who cares, right? I DO! I would think that after the loader issues, the dealer would make an effort to please me...maybe deliver the mower, maybe wash it?????? It was uncrated while I waited. At this time, they replaced the scratched wheel...They had gotten another BX1860 in and swapped me a wheel and tire. This saturday I found my old wheel on that machine on their lot...no touch up paint....scratches still there and rusting...NICE!
My original tires were filled, they would not fill the new one or give me the fluid...I had to go out and buy the fluid and the pump and fittings to load the tire myself.. I just thought this might be one more opportunity to please an unhappy customer.
When the new loader came in and they would not deliver....would not even let me pick it up last sat....they said they were booked. Would not let me bring just the loader, I had to haul the tractor back up there...now 3 trips on my time and my fuel money. I waited for it to be done and then finally met and spoke to the owner for the first time. I asked him if he thought this issue was handled properly and then I went through the above items with him. I reminded him that this was the first time we had met and how he had never given me a personal phone call, or returned my calls. I asked him why the local kubota rep never called me...and I told him that he might want to remind him that his customers are important. I told him that these were the reasons that I was not going to do business with them again. I'm not really sure he cared....I figure they are probably glad to be rid of me. Shame on them....I guess they better stick to selling farm equipment to people who don't care.
Many thanks to those of you that get me....I appreciate it.....to the rest of ya....go ahead, drop your bombs, I'm sure it will be interesting...I hope it makes you feel better.
As for the comment about showing my tractor.....I can just say this, the new loader wouldn't win any shows. It is what it is. I'm guessing my old loader on my BX2230 was welded by a MIG robot. It appears now that they hand stick weld these...Possibly due to the curves of the new style booms, or possibly due to better penetration then the MIG.
Obviously the first loader was a mistake, they changed some welding methods at the plant, probably had a few hiccups and mine got out the door. If Kubota didn't feel that it was a mistake, they would not have replaced it, no matter how many people commented on this thread. A few hundered or a couple thousand people on here, although embarassing, would probably not hurt their global business too badly. It also appears from reading this thread that a good chunk of you could care less what your equipment looks like....
A month or so ago, I was sent some pictures of loader booms that they proposed replacing mine with and asked if I approved. Just based on the photos, I told them that it was much better then mine and if it was the best they could do, then I would accept it. I also pointed out some deficiencies on that loader and asked them if it was the best they can do, if not, then I wanted them to get me the best that they have to offer. I really feel that its possible to have good looking, strong welds, and still meet production goals and costs. I was welding in high school better then what is on parts of mine and some other loaders I have seen. I'm not a professional welder and don't do it 8 hrs a day, so my comments are simply my opinion based on what I can do and what I have seen.
A few weeks later I was informed by my dealer that Kubota was building a new loader for me. At that point I was really optimistic that they knew they could do better and would take this opportunity to get me the best one they could knowing that pictures would go up here and it might shut everyone up...purely my opinion, not their words.
When my dealer notified me that the new one was in he said it looked great! Hey, now I'm excited, right?
I suppose I was a bit let down when I saw it Saturday. Maybe it was the wait, but I think this has been built up so much now on here and in my mind that it would never meet the expectations. You tell me...
Well, thanks to Kubota for stepping up and swapping my old loader out, I appreciate it. The new one is much better, it will work fine and I think I am done talking about it. I'm sure there will be a bunch more comments...some directed as me in a not so positive way. oh well.
I think we can boil this all down to people who care and people who don't. I was having a conversation with my retired parents about this yesterday....Many days I feel like I am in a dying breed of people who still actually give a crap about what they do, how they act, what kind of work they do and how they treat other people. On this site I do know there are a bunch more like me....I think we might be fading in numbers. You know who you are.....the guys that care what the yard looks like and if the truck is washed and the tires shined up...the guys who hang the tools back up, no matter what time the project was done..the guys who make their kids clean their rooms and pick up after dinner , etc, etc, etc. Sure, I'm off topic, but I really think everything is related, you care or you don't.
So those of you that think I made a big deal about this, your right... I did. and I can sleep well at night knowing that maybe I (along with the help of this thread) helped this huge company realize that some customers still care and you can't fool them.
I honestly don't think badly on Kubota...I loved my first tractor and its the reason I did not shop other brands when I purchased this one. Maybe next time, I'll take a look around and compare the competition a bit better. I will be sure to find a machine at a dealer that I accept and not order one in blind.
I already have been enjoying the heck out of my tractor plowing snow... I'm looking forward to spring and summer and doing some more projects. I'm sure it will be a fine machine for me for many years.
Even though this new loader won't win any beauty contests or welding awards, it appears that it will do the job and I will use it without fear of breaking it. I really did feel that the first one would eventually break....at the very least someone would have gotten cut on it.
So once again, thanks to Kubota for stepping up and swapping the loader out...was it your best? I'm not sure.
Now for the dealer...I have held back during this process until I made sure I was getting the loader swapped. I really have nothing good to say about them....If they had handled this properly, pictures would have never made it on the web....They ignored my complaints, and basically dismissed me in my opinion. Once I got nowhere with my salesman, I went over his head to one of the owners who responded to me via email with sarcasm and no suggested solutions other then telling me that Kubota does not swap out loaders for "cosmetic issues". In fact, the dealer told me "yea, we've seen better welds, but we have also seen worse" UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!
I picked up this tractor and hauled it one hr to my home...this was part of my deal when I was negotiating.. When I made that deal I thought it was for one trip to pick up my new machine. I did not know the mower would not be available and would require another trip. This dealer spent no time with me to go over the machine and its features.
When I made that second trip to pick up the mower, it was absolutely filthy...see pictures. I'm sure to some of you...who cares, right? I DO! I would think that after the loader issues, the dealer would make an effort to please me...maybe deliver the mower, maybe wash it?????? It was uncrated while I waited. At this time, they replaced the scratched wheel...They had gotten another BX1860 in and swapped me a wheel and tire. This saturday I found my old wheel on that machine on their lot...no touch up paint....scratches still there and rusting...NICE!
My original tires were filled, they would not fill the new one or give me the fluid...I had to go out and buy the fluid and the pump and fittings to load the tire myself.. I just thought this might be one more opportunity to please an unhappy customer.
When the new loader came in and they would not deliver....would not even let me pick it up last sat....they said they were booked. Would not let me bring just the loader, I had to haul the tractor back up there...now 3 trips on my time and my fuel money. I waited for it to be done and then finally met and spoke to the owner for the first time. I asked him if he thought this issue was handled properly and then I went through the above items with him. I reminded him that this was the first time we had met and how he had never given me a personal phone call, or returned my calls. I asked him why the local kubota rep never called me...and I told him that he might want to remind him that his customers are important. I told him that these were the reasons that I was not going to do business with them again. I'm not really sure he cared....I figure they are probably glad to be rid of me. Shame on them....I guess they better stick to selling farm equipment to people who don't care.
Many thanks to those of you that get me....I appreciate it.....to the rest of ya....go ahead, drop your bombs, I'm sure it will be interesting...I hope it makes you feel better.
Attachments
![010309_1159[01].jpg](/forums/data/attachments/109/109052-1cec7b6b9626f16abbb9f35eccb57995.jpg)
![010309_1159[02].jpg](/forums/data/attachments/109/109056-8e9a81b321eec25523232c7d65554f29.jpg)
Last edited:
sixdogs
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2007
- Messages
- 13,795
- Location
- Ohio
- Tractor
- Kubota M7040, Kubota MX5100, Deere 790 TLB, Farmall Super C
Well, it's over and congratulations on a well-written and appropriate response. Throughout this you have behaved admirably. Really, the dealer could not have gotten a better customer and yet apparently viewed the situation with contempt when you wouldn't just roll over about the loader. Congrats on hanging tough and a tip of the hat to Kubota.
What a lesson this has been and it's mostly about dealer response to a bad situation. Personally, I suspect it was Kubota that got involved and without them you might still be whistling Dixie.
It's been quite a lesson about American manufacturing methods, quality control, American and foreign customer satisfaction and response. Want to bet that loader shows up on another tractor in his lot?
The loader looks fine and will likely perform well. It's been so long I may have misplaced it but once I find that champagne bottle the cork is coming off. Salute.
What a lesson this has been and it's mostly about dealer response to a bad situation. Personally, I suspect it was Kubota that got involved and without them you might still be whistling Dixie.
It's been quite a lesson about American manufacturing methods, quality control, American and foreign customer satisfaction and response. Want to bet that loader shows up on another tractor in his lot?
The loader looks fine and will likely perform well. It's been so long I may have misplaced it but once I find that champagne bottle the cork is coming off. Salute.
