JD 425 BLOW BY

[sriddle1]

Good Morning, I am Mechanically Challenged and here I am again seeking some words of wisdom. I own a '93 JD 425 K Series, V-Twin, Serial # M000425A013701 that has been a workhorse all these years, I make sure I keep up with the Scheduled Maintenance, never a problem and always at-the-ready.

Yesterday I thought I was having a Senior Moment, I added some oil and double checked the dipstick on level ground then headed off to the field. Half way out there I noticed oil running down the side panel, shut-er-down and much to my surprise the Oil Cap was lodged down in the engine compartment? (Huh, I thought I put the cap on ?).....Also noticed the dipstick not seated, up a good 1/4 inch from the rubber seal?? (Huh, I thought I seated the stick ?).....Loosing It !

Wiped the excess oil off, checked the dipstick, reattached the oil cap and off I went and 10 minutes later "The Flow" and shut-er-down, sure enough cap popped-off and thank goodness lodged itself in the engine compartment again and not laying out in the field a good 500 yards from the garage. Noticed the dipstick was also standing tall again? So, gingerly got it back to the garage where it resides before any further damage?..

I checked the Air Filter that I changed-out 20 hours ago and it is completely dry, normally I would see some oil residue on the inside......

I scanned some Blogs and focused-in on the term:"Blow By" with the likely culprit, the Breather Valve with a tube that connects to the Air Cleaner area (probably clogged). I've done a search on JD Parts to see what these parts are and under the Alphabetic Listing Breather Valve that takes me to the Cylinder Head and Crankcase Parts View listing 40 individual parts, nothing jumping out at me? The Blog went on to also mention the Reed Valve and how it was pretty much impossible to replace without pulling the engine (NOT GOOD! $$$$$).

So here I sit, no critical cutting at the moment, for the winter I switch over to my '04 JD 790 with a 59" Front Mount Snow Blower, another quality machine. Any words of wisdom on the 425 would be appreciated.

 

[beenthere]

If I read this right, the only symptom is the "oil flow" ?

No other loss of power, poor performance, poor starting.. ??

Asking because blowing the oil cap and throwing out oil is not in the list of problems for troubleshooting the 425 in the service tech manual.

 

[Richard001]

sriddle1,
I do think it is a breather problem. There is a test described in the manual to determine if the crankcase pressure or vacuum is a problem. Normally there should be a vacuum in the crankcase.

Do you have the service manual for your machine. If not I have a digital copy. If you want a copy, PM me.

Also it's large, 69 MB.

Can also be found here:
http://www.mytractorforum.com/334-john-deere/142324-john-deere-425-445-455-technical-manual.html

Richard

 

[sriddle1]

Beenthere, Richard001, Thanks for the responses.........

The symptom is more along the line of built-up pressure causing the oil itself to dislodge the Oil Fill Cap from it's installed position + also movement of the dipstick from it's resting position. It's odd to me the Black Venting Tube mounted on the Carb is not producing any oil going back into the carb, that was a normal thing to see some oil splash on the filter and now it's dry.

Richard001 - I agree with you, from what I've read it sounds like a Breather Issue (Probably Blocked somewhere along the way) but as you can see by my original post I'm not quite sure what parts (along the way) make-up the "Breather". It would be nice to read-over the Troubleshooting Steps but a 69MB document would be a bit much. I have the latest MS Windows Software and I can open/view an existing PDF and when I go to print I can first Select a Print Page Range then instead of selecting a physical printer I can select "Microsoft to PDF" which create a whole new document containing only the page range. If you can do that then it's a smaller attach to send me after I PM you......THANKS.......

 

[Richard001]

OK here is the problem with what you are doing with the PDF. You need to save the PDF to you hard drive first before you try to print.

Go to the website I posted, single left click on the line that says: John Deere 425 445 or 455 Technical Manual

This will start the down load. After a few moments, scroll down until you see the first page of the manual, then right click some place on the page. This will bring up a small screen, on that screen there are some choices, single left click on the "save this page as".

At this point, you will be ask were to save the file, click on the desktop icon. As it is quite large, it may take a while. I use firefox browser. As the file downloads, the progress is shown on the icon in the menu bar.

After it is down downloading and saved, then you can open it up and search for the page of interest and then print that page if you want. When you go to print, just tell it to print the current page.

Richard

 

[sriddle1]

OK here is the problem with what you are doing with the PDF. You need to save the PDF to you hard drive first before you try to print.

Go to the website I posted, single left click on the line that says: John Deere 425 445 or 455 Technical Manual

This will start the down load. After a few moments, scroll down until you see the first page of the manual, then right click some place on the page. This will bring up a small screen, on that screen there are some choices, single left click on the "save this page as".

At this point, you will be ask were to save the file, click on the desktop icon. As it is quite large, it may take a while. I use firefox browser. As the file downloads, the progress is shown on the icon in the menu bar.

After it is down downloading and saved, then you can open it up and search for the page of interest and then print that page if you want. When you go to print, just tell it to print the current page.

Richard

Richard, appreciate the suggestion to go to that site but as a Former IT Auditor I never download from any source/site I do not trust 100%. These days very bad things can happen doing that, click on a simple link to download a document and before you know it, you've opened the door to malicious software putting your life in your hands. I understand I may be a bit overboard with my overly cautious attitude and I'm sure others have successfully done the download, but one misstep and wham-moe, I'd be kicking myself for doing what I have told others not to do..... So I'll look to find an old paper copy if possible or go to JD and purchase the Shop Manual, probably could use one on file anyway. THANKS...............

 

[Richard001]

Have you been able to obtain a manual, or figure out how to access the breather plate?

Richard

 

[sriddle1]

Have you been able to obtain a manual, or figure out how to access the breather plate?

Richard

Hi Richard, NO, NOT YET.....At the moment I've shifted to installing (on ceiling brackets) (4) SVS Prime Satellite Speakers.....another project way-overdue, used 4" deck screws on the bracket into the roof truss, speakers are 6 lbs. a piece, over-engineered as usual but I don't want anyone getting hurt.

On EBAY I can get TM1517CD from User ID: sydenstricker-dutzow for $82.99, they indicate they are an Authorized JD Dealer. I posted a question to them 2 days ago (no answer yet), can you print from the CD. Couple of years ago I purchased a TM for a '99 RX300, has all the volumes you can view but restricts you from printing, pretty much worthless unless you have a handy-dandy laptop sitting next to the vehicle which I do not........... So, I guess I better try another Ebay Message after sending this reply. Coming from a Dealer I would think it's the real deal, and for $82.99 that's not a bad price but it has to print............

 

[Spanner]

I suggest you do get a copy of the manual. It was revised in 1999 so make sure you get that or a later version, not 1996.

You can buy the CD from JD directly in USA. Why go overseas?

Breather valve is under a cover plate beneath the flywheel. Items 3-8 in the Parts Catalogue illustration:



The Tech. Man. references the drain-back hole being blocked and valve plate clearance gap spec's. on Page 3-45.

 

[sriddle1]

I suggest you do get a copy of the manual. It was revised in 1999 so make sure you get that or a later version, not 1996.

You can buy the CD from JD directly in USA. Why go overseas?

Spanner, YES AGREE "Buy/Hire American" and so I ordered via EBay from Schweissguth Bros Inc (JD Dealership) of Dutzow, MO....Actually spoke with the Parts Manager via the EBay contact number. I did ask about the version and he said the latest available + it allows you to print whatever page you want, no restrictions. So, $82.99 a fair price for my old (Production Year '93) JD425.........

 

[Spanner]

LOLOL that's terrible of me. I Goog'd "Sydenstricker" and got - Absalom Sydenstricker (1852–1931) was an American Presbyterian missionary to China from 1880 to 1931.

Anyway, Schweissguth Bros? What happened to Sydenstrickers deal?

Yes, you can print the pages you need. Over & over. Great for when you get an oily finger on a page. Just print another copy. Keep the ones you print in a folder and build your manual for future reference.

 

[sriddle1]

LOLOL that's terrible of me. I Goog'd "Sydenstricker" and got - Absalom Sydenstricker (1852?931) was an American Presbyterian missionary to China from 1880 to 1931.

Anyway, Schweissguth Bros? What happened to Sydenstrickers deal?

Yes, you can print the pages you need. Over & over. Great for when you get an oily finger on a page. Just print another copy. Keep the ones you print in a folder and build your manual for future reference.

If you go out on EBay and do a search on "John Deere TM1517" you'll see a listing by the seller "sydenstricker-dutzow" for $82.99, not sure why they go by that Ebay Seller Name :confused3: The phone contact within the listing connects you with Schweissguth Bros Inc (JD Dealership) of Dutzow, MO. I did purchase the TM1517CD after speaking to the parts manager about printing so I'll be back to Troubleshooting once it's received. I have had much success and cost savings with members of TBN giving me advice especially when doing a full electrical trace after my JD790 Fuel Stop Solenoid quit working last year.....:thumbsup:

 

[Spanner]

:thumbsup:

 

[sriddle1]

UPDATE............While waiting for the TM to arrive I decided to do a Tune-up, went to move it and Dead Battery. :thumbdown:

I tried trickle charging but Battery is 4 years old (seen better days) Replaced It :thumbdown:

Maintenance = Oil-Filter-Plugs-Air Filter just to start with a clean slate. Even @ Low RPM Vibration caused the fill cap to creep-up and off :thumbdown:

Thought my Filler Cap had seen better days so searched JD Parts Catalog, noticed replacement PN annotation :thumbdown:

Went to Green Parts Store and the New Replacement Part =THREADED DESIGN (old style no longer available) :thumbdown:

In fact, John Deere must have had many complaints or their Design Team said the non-threaded/non-ribbed cap just isn't cutting it so top to bottom new design change..........$70.00 later :thumbdown:

John Deere Engine Oil Fill Plug - M147324
John Deere O-Ring for Oil Plug - M147334
John Deere Rocker Arm Cover - MIU11645
John Deere Rocker Arm Cover Gasket - MIU11646

We'll see how that goes, I needed a TM anyway................

 

[sriddle1]

Spanner, While I'm waiting for the Design Change Cap Filler Assy I thought I'd get myself in trouble by reviewing the JD Parts Catalog Cylinder and Crankcase Diagram, Keys # 3-8 + TM page 3-45 both that you cited in your response, By-the-Way, Thank You for pointing me in the right direction......

OK, so we're talk-n "Manometer" and "Breather Reed Valve".....:reading: Not to complain but it would be nice if the JD TM referenced the same item name that is in the Parts Catalog or better yet, add a better description in the JD Parts Catalog Name. Is Key #3 the "Breather Reed Valve" ? I'm guessing because it's the only item call a valve......:scratchchin: Did a search for the Breather Reed Valve in the TM, only mentioned twice, no illustrations nor hint where it is..... Seems if they're asking to check clearances I should have access to it......But Again :scratchchin:

Lastly, a Dumb Question, if I were to try (emphasizing on the words "Dumb" & "try") to tackle replacing Keys # 3-8, does the engine have to be pulled........ THANKS

 

[sriddle1]

MORE INFO: Searching the Net, found a JD Component Technical Manual (CTM) for K Series Liquid Cooled Engines - CTM 39 (OCT 93). Had a page with good visual of the Breather Reed Valve (attached), good stuff, now I need to locate, if possible................

 

[sriddle1]

now I need to locate, if possible................

Well, degreased the engine so I could see what's-what.........looking, looking....Hey, I see Key #1 M118835 Tube, OK, looking to the rear......around back and, and...... "FLYWHEEL" !!!, WO NELLY !!! The ol'd cover/obstruct everything Flywheel Routine...... Huh, nice illustration in the Component Technical Manual (CMT) (previous post) but in reality, not-so-accessible......... The CMT forgot to mention Engine removed and on a stand, Flywheel off to Inspect Reed Valve......Hope that Fill Cap Design Change addresses the issue, I suspect not....... RATS !!!!! NOTE: If you remember the expression "RATS" you're old like me....... Bad week to quit drinking, "Honey could you get the case out"........ :drink:

 

[Spanner]

I suggest you do get a copy of the manual. It was revised in 1999 so make sure you get that or a later version, not 1996.

You can buy the CD from JD directly in USA. Why go overseas?

Breather valve is under a cover plate beneath the flywheel. Items 3-8 in the Parts Catalogue illustration:

View attachment 522826

The Tech. Man. references the drain-back hole being blocked and valve plate clearance gap spec's. on Page 3-45.

You'll see here (above) that I referred to the Breather being "beneath the flywheel".

The CTM you have will have a section on "flywheel removal".

 

[Spanner]

Spanner, While I'm waiting for the Design Change Cap Filler Assy I thought I'd get myself in trouble by reviewing the JD Parts Catalog Cylinder and Crankcase Diagram, Keys # 3-8 + TM page 3-45 both that you cited in your response, By-the-Way, Thank You for pointing me in the right direction......

OK, so we're talk-n "Manometer" and "Breather Reed Valve".....:reading: Not to complain but it would be nice if the JD TM referenced the same item name that is in the Parts Catalog or better yet, add a better description in the JD Parts Catalog Name. Is Key #3 the "Breather Reed Valve" ? I'm guessing because it's the only item call a valve......:scratchchin: Did a search for the Breather Reed Valve in the TM, only mentioned twice, no illustrations nor hint where it is..... Seems if they're asking to check clearances I should have access to it......But Again :scratchchin:

Lastly, a Dumb Question, if I were to try (emphasizing on the words "Dumb" & "try") to tackle replacing Keys # 3-8, does the engine have to be pulled........ THANKS

#3 is the Reed.
#4 is the Backing Plate.

The "Manometer'' is the tool used to measure Crankcase Vacuum (iirc in "inches of water"). You can make one with a length of clear plastic hose. Google is your friend.

If necessary (and you don't want to remove the engine) just take off the hood and front headlight support frame, battery etc. to gain clear access.

 

[Spanner]

MORE INFO: Searching the Net, found a JD Component Technical Manual (CTM) for K Series Liquid Cooled Engines - CTM 39 (OCT 93). Had a page with good visual of the Breather Reed Valve (attached), good stuff, now I need to locate, if possible................

In the section "Operation" replace the word "mase" with "Maze" for clarity.

The oil vapour passes through a convoluted path (maze-like) to cause it to drop the oil from the air. Other manufacturers use a gauze or mesh to collect the oil. That filter medium usually needs cleaning. The 'maze' concept is supposedly maintenance-free.