Jinma 454LE starting problems - NEED HELP PLEASE

ejtaylor822 · Sep 27, 2005

This evening I came home and tried jumping across the small post and the battery post - no go. Made several attempts, but, she just would not turn over.

I then tried releasing the compression - this was an experience.....

I looked at it and determined that the compression release handle, turned. Was not pulled or pushed as there was no room for it to move forward or backward. So, I tried to turn it - no go. Twisted a little bit harder - nothing. I then took my left hand and turned the lever while pushing up on the other end with my right hand. Finally opened up but took A LOT of effort. Moved it a few times thinking it might loosen, but, still hard to move. It takes both hands to get this thing to open - can't see where that's right. You can keep it open with one hand, but, I do not see anyway in the world this thing can be opened sitting in the driver's seat.

Anyway...

I got the compression release open and tried jumping again from the small post to the battery feed. The engine was turning over as the cooling fan even started rotating, but, as soon as I released the compression handle, nothing. Sparks would fly and the engine would stop turning. The odd thing is that the engine never sounded like it was going to start. I could hear the pistons moving and the see cooling fan rotating, but, it never sounded like it "caught fire" and was going to start.

The only thing I know left to do is swap out the batteries and see what happens. However, at this point I am about ready to say it's a bad starter/soleniod and order new ones.

Anyone have any other thoughts or suggestions?

As always, thanks for the help - Eddie.

Boltonpower · Sep 27, 2005

Sparks from where? Try WD-40 on the linkage for the CR. It
shouldn't be that hard. If the saprks are coming from the posts
on the starter I'm thinking bad crimp or otherwise high resistance connection. Are the crimps soldered?? If not try soldering them..

Graham

ejtaylor822 · Sep 28, 2005

Greg, good point about using the compression release to build up oil pressure - another good reason to use. If I can get mine to working, that's the way I will always start from here on out.

Hey Graham,
I am still using the "clamp" end off some jumper cables. I lay the clamp across the two posts on the solenoid, or, spread the jaws across the posts making the connection. The sparks are coming from where I am touching the jumper clamp to the posts on the Solenoid. I do not think anything is soldered, it's all just bolted together on the posts - can see in the first picture that I posted. I will try and get some better pics in the morning and post.

Once again, I am just using plain old car battery jumper cables and using one of the clamp ends to do the jump. The remaining ends from the jumper cables are coiled up on the tire - with no ends/metal touching. Should I use something else? Remember my dad using a screwdriver - I think??

Yes, the C/R is a real booger. I think maybe it's just the mechanics of it all??? Looking down the shaft from the seat, the "lever" is at 3 o'clock and connects to a push rod. You have to rotate counter-clockwise to open. It feels like something is at a "detent" on the other end of the push rod. I'm a pretty big guy (actually just big - nothing pretty about me 'cept the wife and daughter /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif) with decent strength, but, I can't budge the thing with two hands, much less one from the seat. (I'd give a $100 to any Chineese engineer that could /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.)

BTW - owe you a PM on the sailing - I am sooooooo envious. Will PM you tomorrow when I have more time - been a long day and it's WAY past my night-night time.

Boltonpower · Sep 28, 2005

Can you just hang the cables on the battery directly? Might
minimize the sparks. There is something going on with the
C/R. Try carefully inspecting the linkage. There is a torque rod
that comes out of the back of the valve cover that is connected
to a cam inside the valve cover that holds the exhaust valves open to release the compression. This rod is turned with a plate that is connected to a pull rod in your C/R linkage. I have seen these plates jambed up against the side of the valve cover because the torque rod is too far in or shims are missing. The C/R is hard to move in these cases because the plate isn't free
to move. Take a close look at the linkage and see if you can
determine why it is so stiff.

Graham

cowboy40 · Sep 28, 2005

I have a 454. Bought new in March and now have a little over 100hrs on her.She has the same starting carricteristics as you have described. I have not done anything to correct yet because mine always starts on the second or third turn of the key. But, I believe the starter is fine. I believe the problem is a connection at the selenoid,or a battery problem.And Im betting on the battery. The problem is that the selenoid is not engaging the starter. Anyway,you will problabl have yours fixed before I have time to deal with mine,but the 1st thing I am going to do is put one of those $60,yellow,800cca batteries from Walmart in her, and go from there. As far as the compression release goes, the linkage from the handle to the release, does not let you put any leverage on the release. Mine is the same way. I've studdied it and its just a design flaw in the positioning of the release handle. Its just going to be a 2 handed release. These tractors still give you more for the money than any tractor, anywhere.

greg_g · Sep 28, 2005

( Ione of those $60,yellow,800cca batteries from Walmart in her )

Not enough battery, unless you use the compression release during EVERY start. Even then, I'd expect cold weather starting problems. The OE battery is at least a 1000, and probably 1200. I recommend an Interstate type 93 with marine cable adapters. It's basically a type 45 case, with more plates inside. And it's got a nice low profile to maximize air flow through the radiator.

FWIW, the compression release on my KM454 is a two handed job as well. What it does is open the exhaust valves, and those are some pretty stout valve springs.

//greg//

ejtaylor822 · Sep 28, 2005

Hey guys, been an interesting evening.....

I came home and for grins, as many of you suggested, I wired up the battery in my explorer to the tractor and guess what - she fired right up on the first turn of the key! I know I have been saying the battery was fine, and you more experienced guys kept telling me to check it - next time I will listen!!! I just assumed since the tractor was new and I always see the voltage meter staying nuetral/charged it was fine. I've just had it in my head it was the starter ever since the clicks started when I try to start.

I also found a web page earlier that said if the solenoid is clicking and turning the starter, the solenoid is not getting enough power from the battery to join the large plates to provide the torque needed for the starter. I am now looking at this entirely different. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I think, and someone chime in if I am missing something here, that my problem is now one of two issues: I have a bad battery, or, it's not getting properly charged - alternator, connection or circuit problem (as many of you have said).

The battery that is in there now is an "amarrco" or "ammacco" something like that. I did not look that close look as I have never heard of these - has anyone? I am not that familiar with batteries outside of the major brands.

Greg_g I am really leaning to your idea of getting an Interstate 93 (depending upon cost) and replace the cables with the marine cables and adapters. It doesn't get terribly cold here, but, cold enough and when it snows I want to ensure I have a battery that will turn the engine over - heck I'd settle for starting on warm days right now /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

Replacing the battery is on my list. The next thing I want to do is check the connections - end to end, retighten and clean. I also want to check the alternator. Here's where I need a little help. The website I saw earlier mentioned how to do this, but, it was not tractor specific (believe it was large generators). I believe the way to do this was measure the voltage across the battery terminals while the engine was running. Believe I should see at least 13.4 volts. Does this sound right? Am is missing anything else I should look at?

Thanks again.

Eddie

tat2z1969 · Sep 28, 2005

I took a Jinma starter that was acting the same way to the guy who does my starter rebuilds. He took the solenoid apart and there is a copper bar in there that when it gets burnt it doesn't make good contact, he flipped the bar over and put it back together and it works fine.
He told me that the burning comes from trying to start the tractor with a low battery and once it burns the damage is done.
Might be your problem also.

bruce1966us · Sep 28, 2005

I think the solenoid is probably bad.

greg_g · Sep 28, 2005

( I believe the way to do this was measure the voltage across the battery terminals while the engine was running. Believe I should see at least 13.4 volts. )

The correct procedure would be to have the alternator bench tested. That way both voltage and current can be verified. But the simple test for charging voltage is as you say; with the engine off, you should see something ~12v (maybe 11.7-11.8) between the positive terminal and ground. When the engine starts, the voltage should jump to about 13.2 (12v+10% charging voltage).

Only problem with this shade tree test is that - if the battery is bad - sometimes it will not "accept" otherwise good charging voltage coming from the alternator. So if you don't see the 10% voltage increase, you still really only know that your charging system isn't working. A bench test will help narrow down to the WHY.

Seems they put batteries and cables in these tractors AFTER they're painted. I advise finding the tractor end of the battery negative cable, and get rid of all the paint between the cable lug and the frame.

//greg//