John Deere 4120 V.S. Kubota Grand L4060 w/ prices

[MtnViewRanch]

I wonder also, the LS is indirect injected as opposed to the direct injected Deere. I wonder also if the LS has planetary final drives.

Post #34, yes

 

[murphy1244]

Tell me of these components you speak off, what are they exactly?

 

[arlen4720]

It's a more robust drive system than the spur gears of smaller tractors. With JD, you don't get planetaries until you get into the 4x20's. There are 3 or more "planet" gears running around a "sun" drive gear, with a driven ring gear around the outside. It is a strong system, that transmits the stresses and torques evenly.

 

[murphy1244]

It's a more robust drive system than the spur gears of smaller tractors. With JD, you don't get planetaries until you get into the 4x20's. There are 3 or more "planet" gears running around a "sun" drive gear, with a driven ring gear around the outside. It is a strong system, that transmits the stresses and torques evenly.

Yes I believe there is a thread of one with a busted axle going on now

 

[jenkinsph]

Planetary drives start with the 4x20 series and wet sleeved motors (replaceable liners) start with the 5000 series (not all of them I think) Deeres'. When shopping for my 4520 I was dissapointed that the wet sleeve motors weren't available. My older 820, 3020 and 4020 all had planetary drives and wet sleeved motors.

 

[coobie]

Plus loader specs are wrong half the time also. The marketing departments love their numbers and love making things look better than there are. The pivot pins measurements are the dumbest numbers to go by, but marketing likes that number because it is "bigger." Most people on the forum know that when you are using your loader's bucket, it is 500mm (19.7") out from the pivot pins, just like the 3PH true lift capacity number is 24" out. Going by the pivot pin loader capacity is a mistake many newbies make. If the literature only states loader pivot pin capacity, then take approximately 23% off that number and you should be around the correct loader capacity for your loader when using a bucket. Also this estimate is only for standard loaders and not self-leveling loaders. So the LS can lift ~2600lbs at the pivot pins, that would mean it could potentially lift ~2000lbs at 500mm (19.7") out with the bucket attached. That is still not a bad lift capacity for the LS loader.

As for the warranty, you should have two warranties for the tractor: the general warranty (like a bumper-to-bumper warranty) and the extended power train warranty (engine and transmission warranty). LS, Kubota and John Deere all have the same "2 year general warranty," but the hours are not the same on those warranties. LS's warranty is 2 years or 750 hours, Kubota's is 2 years or 1500 hours and John Deere's is 2 years or 2000 hours. As the for the extended power train warranty, LS's is 5 years or 1500 hours, Kubota's is 3 years or 2000 hours and John Deere's is 3 years or 2000 hours. While LS gives you a nice long 5 year warranty, if you use your tractor a lot, the warranty might only be good for two or three years if you go above the "hours" mark. The devil is always in the details with the warranty stuff.

Lastly, I am impressed with the new LS XR series compact tractors especially with LS now using the Shibuara engines. However, when you pay more for the Kubota and John Deere, you will be paying for name and reputation, but also for the components and engineering they put into the tractors. On the surface, the LS, Kubota and John Deere might look the same and have some similar specs, but it is when you dive deeper into what components are used to make the engine, transmission, hydraulics and etc, that is what makes the difference. I would imagine LS uses some good components in their tractors, but Kubota and John Deere are known to use higher grade components in their L Grand and 4000 Series tractors which does drive costs up, but will also hopefully provide more durability and longevity for the tractors. The key is that you do not pay for something that is over-engineered for your uses. The LS tractor might not use the highest grade components like Kubota and John Deere, but that LS tractor might meet most people's needs at a good solid price point.

Great write up.Questions in your last paragraph,do you know for FACT that JD and Kubota use higher grade components verses the LS tractors?Just curious?coobie

 

[GManBart]

Plus loader specs are wrong half the time also. The marketing departments love their numbers and love making things look better than there are. The pivot pins measurements are the dumbest numbers to go by, but marketing likes that number because it is "bigger." Most people on the forum know that when you are using your loader's bucket, it is 500mm (19.7") out from the pivot pins, just like the 3PH true lift capacity number is 24" out. Going by the pivot pin loader capacity is a mistake many newbies make. If the literature only states loader pivot pin capacity, then take approximately 23% off that number and you should be around the correct loader capacity for your loader when using a bucket. Also this estimate is only for standard loaders and not self-leveling loaders. So the LS can lift ~2600lbs at the pivot pins, that would mean it could potentially lift ~2000lbs at 500mm (19.7") out with the bucket attached. That is still not a bad lift capacity for the LS loader.

Isn't it funny how the numbers become suspect when they don't clearly favor the brand being defended?

Using the pivot pins number isn't a mistake as long as you use them for all that are being compared. The difference at 500mm will be proportionally lower for all involved.

The LS loader is "not bad"? Even giving wiggle room for testing methods, etc, the LS and Deere loaders are at least in the same ballpark, but the LA805 on the 4060 is a joke in comparison....1,720lbs at the pivot, and 1,292 at 500mm. Throw in another couple hundred pounds for a bucket credit, and it's still 20-25%less. A comparison to Kioti's similar loader would be even more lopsided.

I just want to see how someone will find a way to make Korean HP, and PTO horsepower somehow smaller, and inferior to Deere and Kubota HP....

However, when you pay more for the Kubota and John Deere, you will be paying for name and reputation, but also for the components and engineering they put into the tractors. On the surface, the LS, Kubota and John Deere might look the same and have some similar specs, but it is when you dive deeper into what components are used to make the engine, transmission, hydraulics and etc, that is what makes the difference. I would imagine LS uses some good components in their tractors, but Kubota and John Deere are known to use higher grade components in their L Grand and 4000 Series tractors which does drive costs up, but will also hopefully provide more durability and longevity for the tractors.

Even if we take the engineering, and quality components argument as a given, we're still talking a 50% price increase....no way they're using 50% better components, 50% more engineering, etc. If they were, they'd be getting more performance out of their engineering dollars, and that simply isn't happening.

 

[murphy1244]

Isn't it funny how the numbers become suspect when they don't clearly favor the brand being defended?

Using the pivot pins number isn't a mistake as long as you use them for all that are being compared. The difference at 500mm will be proportionally lower for all involved.

The LS loader is "not bad"? Even giving wiggle room for testing methods, etc, the LS and Deere loaders are at least in the same ballpark, but the LA805 on the 4060 is a joke in comparison....1,720lbs at the pivot, and 1,292 at 500mm. Throw in another couple hundred pounds for a bucket credit, and it's still 20-25%less. A comparison to Kioti's similar loader would be even more lopsided.

I just want to see how someone will find a way to make Korean HP, and PTO horsepower somehow smaller, and inferior to Deere and Kubota HP....




Even if we take the engineering, and quality components argument as a given, we're still talking a 50% price increase....no way they're using 50% better components, 50% more engineering, etc. If they were, they'd be getting more performance out of their engineering dollars, and that simply isn't happening.

Its those high tech plastic hoods

 

[94BULLITT]

We keep hearing about the price of the LS in comparison to the Kubota or JD. The thing that confuses me is how can they build a "comparable" tractor for less. Lets take a Grand L Kubota for example. It has a Kubota engine, trans, differential, loader and cab on it. So since Kubota is using their own engine they should be able to keep the cost down by using it. I don't thinK LS uses their own engine. Kubota sells more equipment than LS so shouldn't they get a better price on stuff like seats, wheels, tires, switches, senors, glass, bulbs, steering wheels, and other small parts. So how can LS build the same tractor for less?

 

[GManBart]

I wonder also, the LS is indirect injected as opposed to the direct injected Deere. I wonder also if the LS has planetary final drives.

LS does use planetary drives. Kubota still lists the 4060 as an E-TVCS indirect injection engine....it's not an issue there, so I don't see the problem if its used by others? LS/Mitsubishi are getting 47hp out of 153c.i., and Kubota gets 42hp out of 148c.i. Deere only gets 43hp out of 149c.i., and that's with a turbocharger, which adds expense, long-term maintenance, increase operating temps, etc, etc....not that great a bargain, if you ask me, even if it uses a touch less fuel. So much for all that fabulous Deere engineering, if that's all the power they get out of a blown 2.4L engine Heck, Kioti gets 41hp out if 122c.i. My MF gets 48hp out of 152c.i., and only has to turn 2,250 to do so!

I'm not seeing the vast technical advantage so many assume....