Joystick float

[44trxfun]

Hi all--reviving an old thread. First though, just a hello and long-overdue thank you to y'all for this forum. I got my GC2300 in '03 and it's still running great most of the time. So many times I've thought of you folks, answering so many of my questions for several years. This was a great forum then, and it looks like it still is.

Now, on to my question. I've had no-to-little trouble with my loader / blower valve all these years. I did develop a small leak I couldn't trace last summer and the dealer took it apart and sealed...something. Unfortunately I can't remember what it was, but it was nothing obvious. It almost seems like it was an internal seal. The dealer almost missed it but spotted it just before they were to bring the tractor back.

I've used the blower many times during the winter, with no problem on the valve, until recently. Last time I used it, first I couldn't get into the float position. It was as if it were blocked. After ~ 15 minutes, suddenly it went into float as normal. I used it that way for about 20 minutes, then drove about five minutes down the road to do the neighbor's place. Once again, I couldn't get it into float. This time, however, it felt like there was resistance pushing back on the lever. It got to the point where I had to use some force to overcome that resistance.

I called the dealer and they suggested I remove the cap off the float control cap (they described it, but didn't actually call it the float control cap), make sure there was no ice buildup from condensation, drill a small hole in the bottom, give it some grease, and see if that fixes it. After reading this thread, I expected to find the innards all gunked up. In fact, it was just the opposite. Everything was clean and seemed to be functioning well. There was no grease, but it looked like there was residual clean hydraulic oil on the shaft and spring. I don't remember seeing a bolt on the end of the shaft. I'll have to take another look.

Long story short--I put it back together without doing anything to it. I let the tractor warm up for about ten minutes, then tried the float and it slipped right into position without a problem. It worked under test conditions for about 10 minutes before it didn't. I felt the resistance again. That seemed to get stronger within the course of a few minutes. I shut it off, then noticed a small leak of what looked to me slightly milky hydraulic fluid coming from somewhere on the valve assembly, but not the quick-connects.

Sorry for the length of this thread, but if anybody has any ideas, I'd love to hear 'em. In the meantime, I'll give the dealer a call and see what they think.

Thanks!

 

[mustangsallysdad]

Hi all--reviving an old thread. First though, just a hello and long-overdue thank you to y'all for this forum. I got my GC2300 in '03 and it's still running great most of the time. So many times I've thought of you folks, answering so many of my questions for several years. This was a great forum then, and it looks like it still is.

Now, on to my question. I've had no-to-little trouble with my loader / blower valve all these years. I did develop a small leak I couldn't trace last summer and the dealer took it apart and sealed...something. Unfortunately I can't remember what it was, but it was nothing obvious. It almost seems like it was an internal seal. The dealer almost missed it but spotted it just before they were to bring the tractor back.

I've used the blower many times during the winter, with no problem on the valve, until recently. Last time I used it, first I couldn't get into the float position. It was as if it were blocked. After ~ 15 minutes, suddenly it went into float as normal. I used it that way for about 20 minutes, then drove about five minutes down the road to do the neighbor's place. Once again, I couldn't get it into float. This time, however, it felt like there was resistance pushing back on the lever. It got to the point where I had to use some force to overcome that resistance.

I called the dealer and they suggested I remove the cap off the float control cap (they described it, but didn't actually call it the float control cap), make sure there was no ice buildup from condensation, drill a small hole in the bottom, give it some grease, and see if that fixes it. After reading this thread, I expected to find the innards all gunked up. In fact, it was just the opposite. Everything was clean and seemed to be functioning well. There was no grease, but it looked like there was residual clean hydraulic oil on the shaft and spring. I don't remember seeing a bolt on the end of the shaft. I'll have to take another look.

Long story short--I put it back together without doing anything to it. I let the tractor warm up for about ten minutes, then tried the float and it slipped right into position without a problem. It worked under test conditions for about 10 minutes before it didn't. I felt the resistance again. That seemed to get stronger within the course of a few minutes. I shut it off, then noticed a small leak of what looked to me slightly milky hydraulic fluid coming from somewhere on the valve assembly, but not the quick-connects.

Sorry for the length of this thread, but if anybody has any ideas, I'd love to hear 'em. In the meantime, I'll give the dealer a call and see what they think.

Thanks!

You have an internal leak...the fluid is building up in the cap to the point that it overcomes the little resistance provided by the detent. When you removed the cap to inspect it, the fluid was removed from the cap enabling it to function properly. Over time it will fill the cap again, and you will not be able to use the float function...you can drill a small hole in the bottom edge of the cap for a short term emergency fix, but you will eventually have to deal with the root cause.

 

[massey driver]

First off is this a Nimco Valve and if it is then,This is what to look for.Take the cap off again and see if there's oil in it again. If there is then the oil is comming from the valve.You don't have to take to much apart to fix it.First take the nut off the end then the spring and washer's.Now this is the part thats leaking is right against the valve body.Its a washer with a packing that fits into the valve body, What happens is they get brittle and start leaking.What you have to do is dig all the dried up packing out and insert a O-ring in it's place.You'll see that the washer has a step on it make sure you install it back on the same way you took it off.The o-ring has to be worked into the cutout in the valve body gently so as to not nick or damage it or the spool.It's really a lot easier to do then try to explain it.I did mine this way and it's working fine.Thats actually what keeps the oil from comming from the valve body.[Its a sort of external o-ring as there's none at this end of the spool but the other end has a internal o-ring.So this is the easier end to change the o-ring on.Larry.

 

[44trxfun]

Thanks for the replies. I took the cap back off and it just didn't LOOK like it had filled with oil. Where it attaches to the valve assembly was completely dry. The setup on the valve looked like it was a plastic washer assembly. When I monkeyed around with the lever a little, it started leaking from right there at the point where the connection is. I started thinking about someone's suggestion to make sure the bolt at the end of the shaft was tight, and I was able to give that maybe a 1/5 turn. Since it's night and I have to leave first thing in the morning, I thought I'd try it. I ran it for about 20 minutes, float in most of the time, but out plenty. Each time it worked normally. Within ten minutes earlier this afternoon, the problem had shown itself. Hard to believe that was all it took, but it seems that's the case.

Gotta love this board! Thanks again.

 

[mustangsallysdad]

First off is this a Nimco Valve and if it is then,This is what to look for.Take the cap off again and see if there's oil in it again. If there is then the oil is comming from the valve.You don't have to take to much apart to fix it.First take the nut off the end then the spring and washer's.Now this is the part thats leaking is right against the valve body.Its a washer with a packing that fits into the valve body, What happens is they get brittle and start leaking.What you have to do is dig all the dried up packing out and insert a O-ring in it's place.You'll see that the washer has a step on it make sure you install it back on the same way you took it off.The o-ring has to be worked into the cutout in the valve body gently so as to not nick or damage it or the spool.It's really a lot easier to do then try to explain it.I did mine this way and it's working fine.Thats actually what keeps the oil from comming from the valve body.[Its a sort of external o-ring as there's none at this end of the spool but the other end has a internal o-ring.So this is the easier end to change the o-ring on.Larry.

I have to agree with massey driver. I think that in time, you will find that massey driver and I are correct...if, as you described, when you first removed the cap and found oil inside. That oil has found it's way past the factory packing rod (seal). I had to perform the same repair that massey driver described at around 275-300 hours. The Nimco seal was so brittle that I had to remove it in little pieces...if I recall correctly I just used an O-ring out of a kit that I had here in the shop...and you'll have to disconnect some of the "screwball" linkage on the front of the valve...didn't even want to think about how much the dealer would want for the O-ring. They wouldn't have had it in stock anyway and I would have had to wait for at least a week like everything else I've had to have. Get used to making your own repairs on these little tractors...parts are expensive! By the way, the O-ring fix is still working after around 1400 hours later.

 

[44trxfun]

Don't get me wrong guys, I would have done what you suggested if I had found what you thought I would. First, there never was any accumulation of hydraulic oil in the float cap--I may not have made that clear initially. The residual oil I described was a very thin coating on the cap, shaft, and spring, but there was no accumulation either time I took the cap off. Nor could I find any indication of who made the loader valve--no identifying plate or stamp or nothing. From looking at it when I had the cap off, it looked quite different from the newer models shown in several pictures on this thread. The setup looked different than massey driver described--similar but different. I saw no 'typical' washer and no packing material, but I did not take it completely apart, so maybe I need to dig further.

I do appreciate your responses and understand I may not be done with this. If need be, I'll dig deeper but for the time being, it seems to be working.

 

[Abe460]

Sorry for bringing this tread back to life if I should have started a new one.

I've finally got my tractor running right and it's been great. Got some things done that have been in waiting too long.

Problem I have is understanding the "float" setting on the FEL. When I push the joystick forward the lift goes down until I pass onto what i assume is supposed to be the "float" position. At that point the FEL lifts...and quickly.

Is this a valve issue or maybe this valve doesn't have that option? Thanks again for everyone's help and advice for previous issues and I look forward to hearing from you guys again.



Abe.

 

[jaybrad]

Abe,

Hopefully someone else more familiar with the valve body can weigh in here - but on my unit, when I push the control stick forward, the bucket goes down and there is a point where if I push it just a bit further, the lever stays in the forward position and the bucket goes into "float" mode and adjusts to the ground terrain.

If yours is going in the opposite direction, something isn't right. Have you checked the simple stuff like making sure all the hoses and lines are properly connected?

I'll be interested to hear what others suggest - and learning about whatever fixes the problem.

Good luck!

Jay

 

[irvingj]

When you say "At that point the FEL lifts..." do you mean the FEL goes up, or the FEL lifts the front of the tractor?

 

[DMW]

If it's the front of the tractor that lifts, remove the cap on the valve body and check the bolt in the end of the spool, It may have loosened off.

edit: Assuming it's a Nimco valve on a GC2300/2310

 

[Abe460]

When I push the joystick forward the FEL itself goes down, then when I pass the down position ,to what I'm assuming is supposed to be float, the FEL will go up.

 

[massey driver]

When I push the joystick forward the FEL itself goes down, then when I pass the down position ,to what I'm assuming is supposed to be float, the FEL will go up.

Just a thougth but have you pulled the rubber cover back on the joy stick lever exposing the ball and sockets to make sure that there all tight and not loose.Maybe something is worn out in there or loose.Check to see what happens with the cover pulled back so you can watch to see what's happening.When you push the joy stick watch to see what the control is doing and push it further into the float position and watch to see if the spool changes direction or what.The tractor doesn't have to be running to do this.Hopefully that'll give you something to go on.Other then that there's no reason for it to start lifting up again,as long as all the hoses are connected properly and the loader works up and down and the bucket dumps and curls back like its supposed to then I'd check to make sure the linkage in the ball and sockets are all working properly.Let me know what you find hopefully I can help you further.Larry:thumbsup:I forgot to ask what tractor is this on and is it a nimco control valve [wasn't mentioned earlier]Larry

 

[Abe460]

The joystick and control valve are both new. It is a nimco valve and is on a MF471 with the 1060 FEL.. I'll go check under the boot right now.

 

[massey driver]

The joystick and control valve are both new. It is a nimco valve and is on a MF471 with the 1060 FEL.. I'll go check under the boot right now.

Maybe you just answered your question? You say its a new valve [is it the same as what was on there before,or is this a new valve on a new loader] Sounds like you may have the wrong type of control valve.You may have gotten a valve that has power beyond in the detent position.In another words the new valve you got may be for a different application. eg; in the detent it will drive a hydralic motor,this would be why the loader lifts the front of the tractor and fast, as you posted earlier.Pretty sure this is what your problem is.Larry

 

[Abe460]

It's the same model valve, but maybe it never did float. The valve wasn't functioning properly when I bought the tractor so there was no way to tell. It's not a big deal (I've learned to work without it), but would be nice to have.

 

[massey driver]

It's the same model valve, but maybe it never did float. The valve wasn't functioning properly when I bought the tractor so there was no way to tell. It's not a big deal (I've learned to work without it), but would be nice to have.

I'am pretty certain that you have your answer.The valve doesn't have a float position,from what your describing.it does have a power beyond or live detent postion,sorry I can't help you any further.It's too bad that before you bought the new valve that you didn't specify that you wanted one with the float position.I'am pretty certain this is your problem.Larry:confused3:

 

[massey driver]

Just thougth I'd add a bit more info here for you. Different valves are set up to work different for different applications. Some valve's have one control that has a detent,some valve's have two control's with detent and so on.Some have the detent in the push position and some have the detent in the pull position.Some have float postion in the detent.Some have power out in the detent position.One eg; is one's that lot of people use on say a wood splitter.You control the cylinder in and out with the control valve but say when you put it into the detent position the cylinder will retract on it's own,untill the cylinder bottoms out then it kicks itself out of the detent position.Of course it can be set up the other way as well to allow the cylinder to extract on it's own as well.So many differnt ways valves are set up to work.So pretty sure the one you have on your tractor isn't the proper valve for your application.Hope this helps to clear up why you valve is doing what it's doing.Larry

 

[Abe460]

Your last post explains alot to me. I understand very little about the options a valve may be set up for. It makes sense to me that this valve is used for something else. I guess now, I'm going to have to figure out what I can use this function for. I don't see it as a problem, but an excuse to get a new function.

 

[Abe460]

Ok, I'm not sure how to explain this so I'll just go at it. If pushing the joystick into the "float" position isn't really float and is used for "something else", then how does this "something else" return to the original position? Granted I haven't provided the valve numbers, but just hypothetical, how would that be useful? To push a motor maybe? snow-blower or something? We don't get snow...well until global warming we didn't. Just kidding on the warming thing. don't want or need the stabs.

 

[massey driver]

Ok, I'm not sure how to explain this so I'll just go at it. If pushing the joystick into the "float" position isn't really float and is used for "something else", then how does this "something else" return to the original position? Granted I haven't provided the valve numbers, but just hypothetical, how would that be useful? To push a motor maybe? snow-blower or something? We don't get snow...well until global warming we didn't. Just kidding on the warming thing. don't want or need the stabs.

The best way I can describe this is the valve that you have {don't need numbers} is that if you say had it connected to a double acting cylinder on a wood splitter.You still have two hose's comming from the valve and going to the cylinder.What the valve does that you have is it allows you to move the cylinder in and out just by moving the lever.Now when you push this valve into the detent position it lets the cylinder either retract or extend by itself depending on what side the hose from the detent is feeding ,untill the cylinder reaches the it's end of travel then it clicks out of the detent. It would be the same with a hydralic motor you could run a motor either way and when you push the valve into the detent the motor will keep running without you having to hold the lever in on the valve. But what you can't do is say try and add something else onto the same system. If you were thinking that you could add a grapple and run it off the same circuit as what that valve is doing right now working the lift cylinders you can't you need another valve. Thats why valves come in so many different configurations.Another explanation would be say your valve was a 3 spool valve you could have it set up say using two of the spools to run the loader and the third one to run a hydralic post hole auger.Moving the lever either way would make the auger go forward or reverse and pushing it into the detent would make it keep running on it's own .Hope this helps.