Just had a big hole dug in my front yard

[Iplayfarmer]

The good news is that my daughter took 1st place in the science fair. That helped the mood around here a lot. This is the first year that I didn't help with the science fair project. I guess we know who gives the best science fair project help around here.

 

[eepete]

Balancing the domestic front is a never ending dynamic process... Good deal on the 1st place in the science project :thumbsup:.

On your floors, I had to put smoke blocks in for every 1000 sq feet. I wish I had put some extra ones in where there would be heavy foot traffic or walls. By the time you realize this, there's too much running through the joists to fix it.

I did put 5/8 plywood on the 2nd floor trusses under a wall. No dry wall cracks in that area. So a little extra beefing up does help. But this leads to the bigger problem you've mentioned and it's even worse for those with a little OC disorder going for them:

Any project that actually got done has flaws, and that is why it got done.

So do what you can, make a priority list of what you want, install in that order. There are also items that can be done after construction, or items where you can do a little bit during construction (like put in conduit) and get it later. Inevitably, later is a few years later, but at least you cat get it.

I ran CAT5 to the door bells, they tie into the PBX for the house. I also ran a quad shield coax, 18 gauge pair for power, and a CAT5 to a box above the doors for video cameras. I left one door out- this gets back to the "any finished job has flaws" theory of life. Today, I can't remember what else was so pressing that I made this decision but it got made.

Of course, everything is a home run to a central area so your options are open down the road.

You mentioned working in the attic, I hope you have a conduit (2" or so) running from the basement to the attic for projects down the road.

Pete

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Balancing the domestic front is a never ending dynamic process... Good deal on the 1st place in the science project :thumbsup:.

New news... My daughter just won the district wide science fair!!

On your floors, I had to put smoke blocks in for every 1000 sq feet. I wish I had put some extra ones in where there would be heavy foot traffic or walls. By the time you realize this, there's too much running through the joists to fix it.

What are smoke blocks? (This is when everyone gets even more scared that I have done a full basement remodel with very little construction knowledge). I've thought about adding cross blocking between the joists. I don't know if this would help the springiness or not

I did put 5/8 plywood on the 2nd floor trusses under a wall. No dry wall cracks in that area. So a little extra beefing up does help. But this leads to the bigger problem you've mentioned and it's even worse for those with a little OC disorder going for them:

Any project that actually got done has flaws, and that is why it got done.

So do what you can, make a priority list of what you want, install in that order. There are also items that can be done after construction, or items where you can do a little bit during construction (like put in conduit) and get it later. Inevitably, later is a few years later, but at least you cat get it.

I have learned by working with others that are even more OCD than me that the biggest enemy of good is perfect. You'll never have perfect, and if you insist on it, then you'll never have good either.

I ran CAT5 to the door bells, they tie into the PBX for the house. I also ran a quad shield coax, 18 gauge pair for power, and a CAT5 to a box above the doors for video cameras. I left one door out- this gets back to the "any finished job has flaws" theory of life. Today, I can't remember what else was so pressing that I made this decision but it got made.

Of course, everything is a home run to a central area so your options are open down the road.

I should have thought about cat5/cat6 for the doorbells. Of course I tied into some existing wires for the upstairs doorbells, so it wouldn't have helped me there.

You mentioned working in the attic, I hope you have a conduit (2" or so) running from the basement to the attic for projects down the road.

Pete

I didn't run any conduit, but I have access through a pantry wall that is not finished on the inside. it drops down very near where the subpanel is downstairs.

 

[Ranger Rick]

I've thought about adding cross blocking between the joists. I don't know if this would help the springiness or not

I have the same problem with my upstairs floor and I was talking to my friend who is an architect and he said that blocking between the joist might help because it would make the whole floor work as a unit all connected together. So the blocking might help your springiness but no guarantees.
Rick

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I have the same problem with my upstairs floor and I was talking to my friend who is an architect and he said that blocking between the joist might help because it would make the whole floor work as a unit all connected together. So the blocking might help your springiness but no guarantees.
Rick

It makes sense when you mention that the whole floor would work as a unit. Did your friend suggest how to do it. In an 11' span I'm planning on one set of cross blocks somewhere near the middle of the span.

 

[eepete]

At least here a "smoke block" is when you take the floor truss and nail at least 1/2" plywood on to it. These are the gusset plate engineered trusses. For every 1000 square feet of floor space, the "smoke block" is needed.

The name is odd, since smoke doesn't cause problems. The theory is that fire will be stopped instead of spreading all out under your floor.

The plywood makes the truss "solid" and so it does not bounce as much. The engineered trusses tend to bend and stay bent with time. We has some drywall stored on the 2nd floor, and the 24' span 2' deep trusses sunk by about 3/16" and when the drywall was installed (they did the 2nd floor 1st so I could see what was going on) the truss ended up staying with about 1/4" of deformation at the middle. The truss with the plywood did not measurably sag.

Cross blocking (as I understand it) keeps the trusses from "kicking out" to the side. It's used for traditional (i.e. 2x10 or 2x12) floor joists. For engineered trusses, they run a 2x4 down the bottom of the truss at certain intervals to keep the bottoms from kicking to the side. The plywood on the top of the truss keeps that from kicking out.

So the challenge is to look at the design of the house and figure out what the loads on the floor will be. Then you can guesstimate if you want to do a little bit of extra "smoke blocking" on the truss to pick up the rigidity. This might be where you will walk, might be where there are cabinets or furniture.

If you look at this picture, you can see the 2nd floor truss with some plywood on it (center, 1/4 way up from the bottom). This was the beginning of adding some strength to this truss. You can see the wall that was on this truss. In this shot, I'm in the living room which has a vaulted ceiling which is why can can see the floor truss and why the wall was on it. Adding the plywood was my idea, the design of the house did not include that.

Pete

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I have solid 2X6's. I guess the smoke blocking won't really help. I am going to put in some cross blocking. That and generous use of construction adhesive to kill squeaks should get me ready for the insulation.

 

[eepete]

Last house was 2x10 solid floor joist. Underlayment was tongue and groove 3/4 plywood nailed down with shank nails, but, _no glue_. The floor squeaked.

This house has the trusses. Used Avantek flooring, nailed with funny coated nails and put glue down as the flooring went down. No squeaks.

During the big housing boom, I saw very few houses where glue was used. Very sad. Hard to saw who's at fault here, the builders who cheap out, or the buyers who want the money in granite counter tops and not the framing/stuff you can't see. It was surprising how difficult it was to do things right, seemed like I was always arguing with the trades .

Pete

 

[Ranger Rick]

It makes sense when you mention that the whole floor would work as a unit. Did your friend suggest how to do it. In an 11' span I'm planning on one set of cross blocks somewhere near the middle of the span.

No suggestions but to go down the middle of the span. I would offset each block 3 or 4 inches from the last one so that you could nail each from the back side of the floor joist to avoid having to toenail one end of each block. Rick
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[Iplayfarmer]

No suggestions but to go down the middle of the span. I would offset each block 3 or 4 inches from the last one so that you could nail each from the back side of the floor joist to avoid having to toenail one end of each block. Rick
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Like the offset idea.

My building inspector came by today. He suggested angle iron down some of the joists (I think he likes angle iron.) I only have a few inches of clear space on any of the joists before I hit a wire running through the middle. Would 2" angle iron add any real rigidity to the floor joists?

By the way, I'm very glad to have kept this thread alive. The help I'm getting has been a life saver.