Justification for a BH?

   / Justification for a BH? #1  

seasalt

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
93
Location
Lake Conroe area, Tx
Tractor
John Deere 3720
Have two 300x150 tracts of mixed forest (tall and old, tall and young, and tall and dead) to thin, clean up, and in some areas clear, like for a modest pole barn, overflow parking area and some trails.

Small trees I can easily run over. Filling the holes shouldnt be a big deal. Thinking of cutting bigger trees to 6 foot level as suggested by one member and then pushing them over with a 300cx FEL or tieing up and pulling them over (3720 w/ filled large R-4-s). If the subject tree resists such influence, I thought I'd run a post hole or six around the base to loosen up the dirt, break a few perimeter roots and try again.

Not sure how I will fill the root ball holes easily without a manual shovel and tamp, which will cause me to have to get off the tractor! (Seriously, I have a back that is waiting for an excuse to cause pain hurt so wont be reverting to the old days and play linebacker with stumps, wheel barrows, axes, etc.).

I figure a 448 BH will do all this better and faster, (re: as 454shooter suggested - just break a few roots with the BH then push them over whole), but wonder if my more basic plan will work reasonably well, or is this simply a job (including sourcing the fill dirt, filling in and packing the holes), for the 448?

Would be interested in hearing about other meaningful uses you may have found for the BH also.

I have heard several of you say using a BH takes practice (to get it right). I have driven/used a few power/hydraulic devices but a BH is not one of them.

Talked to a couple of dealers about my interest / questions and heard various things that didnt really help. "..those things are for guys who work 8 hours a day digging holes.."..or "...I only sell about one of those a year..." or "...dont even have one to let you test - would have to call Billy or Tom and ask if we could borrow their model1959 brand X BH and let you play with it in the parking lot..."

Not exactly the most helpful notions a salesman could offer.

BTW I know renting a mini ex (over and over) would be cheaper, but sometimes just thinking of all the trips to pu and return / budgeting blocks of time to make good use of the rental for an entire weekend and hoping no one else intervenes on my plan, makes me feel tired. I wonder how much would actually get done, when and how long it would take. Not that I am trying to finish by any certain time but there is some price for convenience and if I am flat going about this wrong then I'd like to know sooner than later.

Would leave it to field test my FEL theory for myself, then buy a BH later if I thought I needed one, but I still have the now non-existent 36 mo 0% financing package open with JD and my 3720 has not yet arrived, so I could easily add a BH and extend the cost over the full 3years at no interest.

Could use the forum's feedback on this one as I am thinking...and thinking...but still not sure.
 
   / Justification for a BH? #2  
Get the Backhoe You won't be sorry. I have had 1 on my 790 I use to have for 5 years, And always had work for it even though when I purchased it I wasn't sure I would.So when I purchased my 4320 it was a must. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jim
 
   / Justification for a BH? #3  
I wanted a backhoe for years. I'd operated numerous backhoes over the years and found they are quite useful. However, the cost of and relatively limited strength of a 3 pt backhoe stopped me. Unless I constantly needed the hoe, there was no way I could justify the cost.

After procrastinating for several years, I finally got one for a JD 4600 I had. I used it exactly twice. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif It was such a pain to take off and put back on, that I found myself borrowing a neighbor's hoe to do work rather than putting the BH on my tractor for a small job. If you never need any other 3 pt. implement on the back, this might not be a problem. For me, I always needed to use the 3 pt and could not ever just leave the BH on.

After using a full sized BH, the 3 pt. hoe not only was a hassle to put on and take off, but it seemed particularly weak. Unless you have locations you need to get to that are too confined for a full sized BH, I'd not waste money on a 3 pt. hoe. From my experience they are simply not worth the expense and hassle for the limited productivity gained as compared to a full sized BH.

I still need a hoe on occasion, but I don't at all miss having one. I'd actually prefer going and renting one to all the trouble of putting the hoe on and taking it off. 99% of the time I or more I don't need the hoe on my tractor. For me, I just have to ask myself if I need to spend over 8 thousand dollars for something that I'd need far less than 1% of the time. In my case, I don't. Your case may be different. You may need a small BH a very high percentage of the time.

If I get to the position to where I need a BH again, I'll just buy another used full sized hoe like I finally ended up doing anyway. Otherwise, I'll just keep my money in my pocket.
 
   / Justification for a BH? #4  
Um, Dargo, yours wasn't a Deere backhoe, was it?

First, my wife and I fought like crazy over a backhoe.. I showed her over and over how we didn't really need it and it wasn't worth the expense.

So now I have a backhoe. It is a Deere. it takes almost 5 minutes to put it on, and I am about 90% blind, if I can do it almost anyone can. (I really thought that I wouldn't be able to do that...)

The Deere hoes were designed with the tractors and fit extremely tight. I realize that a bigger hoe is faster, but the net result is that I get more done by having one than I ever would by not. Even trenching is very satisfactory, but i have no shortage of drivers, and can keep both seats occupied. (but make sure the driver is big enough to keep the presence switch depressed..!)

I use mine to cut roots and let the tree pull its rootball out, works great.

I paid $5K for mine, and really am glad that I have it.
 
   / Justification for a BH? #5  
Thanks for the follow-up post Bart. From what I've read here, at least it sounds like I should not have a problem clearing the area I want and removing the stumps with either the 300cx FEL or the 448 BH or a combination of both. The only thing different I noticed is that you have the 3720. I hope that my 3320 will be as effective. I guess I'll find out soon.
 
   / Justification for a BH? #6  
Mike MC, it sounds like you are very satisfied with your JD BH. What model is yours? I ordered the 448 model and hope I am as satisfied as you. I'm not worried about the hook-up time, as I will be leaving it on for extended periods. I'm more concerned with performance and what it can and can't do. I have some really rocky hard ground and hope to be able to dig through it. Can you offer any insight as to performance?
 
   / Justification for a BH? #7  
I look it like this.
At $40 per hour it only took 95 hours for me to get back the $3800 Ive got in my back hoe.
I have 260 hours on the tractor now so the back hoe was paid for a long time ago.
 
   / Justification for a BH? #8  
My sig is: RockyRidgeFarm. the backhoe is the ONLY way we can dig there!

I have the 47, which is spec'ed slightly less than the 447. You did the right thing getting the 448, it looks like an amazing machine!

I have not had a situation that the hoe hasn't been up to...
 
   / Justification for a BH? #9  
Thanks for the input RockyRidgeFarm. My ground is so hard and rocky that its hard to believe anything could dig through it, so I'm glad to hear from you that the BH is the way to go. Thanks!
 
   / Justification for a BH?
  • Thread Starter
#10  
RRF/Mike,

Please tell me the JD has nothing to do with the three point set up arrangement / mental fatigue / digging weakness problems previously mentioned regarding what I assume was a universal BH model?
 
   / Justification for a BH? #11  
I purchased a backhoe for my tractor 2 years ago.
Since then I used it to install the utilities to our new house. ( around 880' of waterline, and 600' electric).
Install 1000' of perferated pipe to dry up wet areas on the property.
Dig drainage colvert/drainage ditch along the driveway (around 500')
Installed colvert pipe under driveway
Dug the foundation to install a swimming pool.
Dig out more room and sloped the bank off behind my pole barn. Etc.
I use it often, goes on or off in 5 minutes.
The nice thing about having my own backhoe is I can use it whenever I want as long as I want, and best of all I only have 3 payments left and its all mine /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Justification for a BH?
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Not to worry Brandon1. Your 3320 will lift just as much, pump just as much fluid, and "bull" a load quite sufficiently I am sure (especially with the 300cx).

I went over the top and changed my lower HP tractor to a 3720 after my "friends" on the forum talked me into an firebreathing intercooled turbo diesel monster. After learning I lived in SE Texas, they probably wanted to make sure I wasnt embarrassed at the Saturday nite tractor pulls!!

have fun! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
   / Justification for a BH?
  • Thread Starter
#13  
RRF,
You lost a debate with your wife - understandable.
Your wife was the one taking the side of buying the BH - yeah...reminds me of the time my wife told me to go out and buy a new Porsche!

Anyway, glad you are enjoying it, especially if it was forced upon you. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / Justification for a BH? #14  
Seasalt

I just put this on my 990 about a month ago and I'm already over the money guilt. It comes off really fast, but takes a bit longer to install. It has to be aligned perfectly. My problem is that I am changing it out on a gravel base. If you have a concrete surface it is much easier. My next welding project is going to be a support base with maybe a couple of adjustments to help align it for install.

I have ten acres that is mostly dense forest and I am constantly cutting trees. I have since removed about two dozen stumps without a problem. As you would expect bigger takes longer. I also finally solved a drainage problem with about 100' of trench. I've even used it as a crane a couple times. This Saturday I am digging a drainage trench on the side of my driveway. I have work lined up for this thing as far as I can see. My only regret is that I didn't get it sooner.

Backhoe.jpg
 
   / Justification for a BH? #15  
I agree that the JD backhoes are easy to remove and install. I have the 48 hoe.
We also have a PTO generator and sometimes the hoe has to be removed at night in a rainstorm. I can do it with my wife holding a flashlight in less than 5 minutes.

Richard
 
   / Justification for a BH? #16  
Great information for the 448 BH. Answers alot of my questions. Has anyone actually used this BH or a similar one to dig through rocky ground? I have more rock than dirt and I'm talking some bigger type rocks. Will a BH this size have any problems with this?
brandon1
 
   / Justification for a BH? #17  
Why not not hire a guy with a BH to come in and dig for a couple hours and see how it digs?
Or you could rent one for a couple hours and try it yer self.
 
   / Justification for a BH? #18  
OK, first let me tell you that I didn't know a whole lot about Deere's setup before buying mine. There certainly weren't any at the dealerships!

The first step in mounting the hoe is removing the 3 point arms. That sounds like a pain, but it is very easily done in less than about 5 minutes. Betting them out of the way allows the hoe to mount snugly up to the tractor, where there is a huge tthhiicckk mounting plate. It hooks up very easily, especially on a flat hard surface.

Once attached, it is TIGHT as if it was integral to the tractor. That is with no subframe stuck down there interfering with the midmower or robbing ground clearance. (btw, there is a subframe that should be used with the new 447/448 on the older 4x10 machines...)

I have yet to encounter a situation that my 447 can't handle, and it is smaller than the 447 let alone the 448.

<font color="green"> Has anyone actually used this BH or a similar one to dig through rocky ground? I have more rock than dirt and I'm talking some bigger type rocks. Will a BH this size have any problems with this? </font>

Yes. You can do it. Heck i see little BX tractors digging out Volkswagen sized rocks! you need to be patient with the hoe at first. At first, a new hoe needs to get 'broken in'. They don't lollow cammands well, and don't exactly do the right things in response to how you work the controls. After a bit they get better at following your instructions, and before you know it you can train one to pick up dog poop without scratching the yard... Amazing that they learn so well! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I would suggest getting the 12" HD bucket (you can get a wider one too..) to get the most power for digging. I would also think you want the 300CX loader, with a heavy duty bucket and toothbar. You should be set, (ok, get a grapple if you can!) I have seen grapple kits on eBay for pretty reasonable, you should at least get the plumbing for the 3rd SCV so you can easily add a grapple later...
 
   / Justification for a BH? #19  
Yes. You can do it. Heck i see little BX tractors digging out Volkswagen sized rocks!

This is what I was hoping to hear! Thanks for the input MC Mike
 
   / Justification for a BH? #20  
As you can see in my sig I have a 3520 w/ 448BH. A lot of the "what you can do" isn't as dependent on the tool as it is on the tecnique. You won't move mountains with the boom or the dipperstick, but that bucket curl is bad! Mine is a digging machine, and I had never used a backhoe before. The controls are nice and responsive. The only thing I find I have a problem with is sometimes the boom up and down get jerky, but again I believe it's mostly a short between the seat and the controls.
 

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