Kerdi shower system, a do it yourself project?

[MNBobcat]

Kerdi claims you can use drywall. I wouldn't. I'd use cement board.

As for the floor, just do the mud bed floor. You can buy a plastic guide that you lay on the floor and it has the correct slope to the drain. Then you put down your mud mix and screed it flush with the top of the plastic guides.

As for Kerdi, its a great product but you have to use unmodified thinset mixed loose that you trowel on the wall surface. Then you apply the kerdi membrane and use a trowel to press it into the thinset while trying to remove all air bubbles from under the membrane. You also use unmodified thinset to adhere the tile to the kerdi.

It can be done by a do it yourselfer but its a total ***** to build a shower like that including all the tile work. I spent about 6 months doing mine. But then the tile isn't your average do it yourself tile job and I have a tiled seat in the shower as well. If I had it to do all over again I'd hire it done. I'm not exaggerating when I say its 50 times the work you think it will be.

Oh, and I wouldn't even attempt to tile it without a rotary laser or without having my own tile saw.

 

[prichard]

Nice job Bobcat. I had a similar experience, at least my wife said it took 6 months. It may have been. The one I am currently doing is not at the house where I live so I have totally worked less than 30 hours over the last couple months including demo of the old bath. Tile should be up this weekend and grouted the next. It is a lot of work but I like the work.

 

[MNBobcat]

Nice job Bobcat. I had a similar experience, at least my wife said it took 6 months. It may have been. The one I am currently doing is not at the house where I live so I have totally worked less than 30 hours over the last couple months including demo of the old bath. Tile should be up this weekend and grouted the next. It is a lot of work but I like the work.

Thanks. Yes, if you like doing the work it makes a difference. I hate, absolutely hate tiling. I messed up the first time I put up the wall board. After it was up I found out how badly the wall bowed. I had to rip it all off and buy a power planer to plane down the higher studs. The low studs I sistered another stud along side it.

On a wall not in the shower, a wall I didn't build and because of plumbing limited what I could do with it, I had to buy special drywall mud that can be put on thick and float on 1/2" to 3/4" of drywall mud to get the bow out of that wall.

The second floor room in which I installed the bathroom didn't originally have plumbing. So I guess all in all it was a lot of things that added up to it being a ton of work. I guess an existing bathroom might be easier to start from.

 

[billybobjimmyjoejack]

I researched many of the shower systems on the market and the one I chose was the Durock shower system USG Durock Shower System by USG, it is simple and a lot cheaper than the other brands.
Much more user friendly.
You can order a custom sloped pan to fit your base size and most other items can be ordered through Amazon.

 

[EddieWalker]

I've been very hesitant on the Kerdi system. I've seen it used on the DIY shows on TV over the years and noticed they keep changing how it's supposed to be done. There are a couple of other products out there very similar, but all of them make me nervous because of the materials they use. Plastic and fiberglass always cracks. It's just a matter of time.

When I do a shower, I remove the drain pipe and install a new one designed for a rubber liner. I have to remove some of the concrete around the drain to do this, but it's a simple thing with a SDS Max rotary hammer. If it's a pier and beam foundation, then it's even easier.

After the drain, I install the liner so it's folded up the walls a foot.

The Hardie goes over the liner, up the wall. I'm a big fan of Hardie products. They have proven themselves over time. With the proper saw blade, it's easy to install.

In most of my showers, I install a recessed LED shower rated light. Clients are all worried about having light in the shower. It's now become a standard part of every bathroom remodel. I run the wires, install the green sheetrock, then drill a 4 inch hole for the light, which I install after painting the ceiling. I only use exterior paint in bathrooms.

To seal the Hardie, I like to use Redgard waterproofing membrane from Home Depot. Cord mentioned something similar. Just tape your seams with heavy duty fiberglass tape and thinset, then the next day, paint on the Redgard. I just paint it on the seams and a gallon is always more then enough.

Then I paint a concrete bonding agent onto the rubber liner and let that dry for the night. The next day I mix 5 parts sand to one part portland cement with VERY LITTLE water. You want it as dry as possible, but wet enough that it sticks together. This is a bit of a pain to mix up because of how dry it needs to be. I do it in small batches with a coffee can to measure each part into a five gallon bucket, then mix it with my drill.

Getting it sloped and smoothed out is extremely easy once you have it in place. A regular concrete trowel works perfect for this. Just start in the farthest end and work your way back out.

When tiling, I start on the walls first. It is a lot easier to clean up anything that falls on the mortar bed then onto the tile floor. I do the same when grouting.

Back to Kerdi. I know several guys who own tile and flooring stores, and several contractors that all use Kerdi. They went to the free school that Kerdi puts on to install it properly, and they all became dealers. Their markup is very high on it, and I feel that's a big part of why they push it. Their argument that it makes the shower waterproof is kind of silly since a shower isn't designed to be waterproof. The tile sheds all of the water down to the pan, which is water proof, but there is always a hole in the shower wall where the water valves is located that will never be water proof. Why spend so much extra money on a product that claims to be water proof, when there is a hole in the wall for the water valve? To me, it's like spray foaming your house and having skylights. One defeats the other.

 

[MNBobcat]

The tile sheds all of the water down to the pan

Water will always, always find its way through the tile to the hardibacker or Durock underneath the tile unless steps are taken to prevent that. That is why it is recommended (by the manufacturer) that plastic (poly) be put on the wall behind the durock or hardibacker. The idea of the poly is to contain the water and get it down to the pan. Durock is not water proof either. It has cracks in it, etc.

To me, its silly to contain the water after its passed through the wall material. I think the idea of poly behind the wallboard is utterly stupid.

That's why smart people like you use redgard or some other water proofing material to keep the water from going through the wall board to begin with. Just a note -- when using hardibacker, you should leave a 1/2" gap between the floor pan and the hardibacker so that water on the floor doesn't wick up the hardibacker. Then fill that 1/2" gap with silicone caulk.

Redgard is okay but as a painted on membrane I don't trust that it won't crack. Whereas, kerdi is a more durable membrane. It's harder to install then a painted on membrane but any home owner who does their research can do it if they are generally good at building things anyway. Plenty of youtube videos show how to do it.

There is now a competitor to kerdi that has a similar membrane but can be used with modified thinset. I've never worked with it as I've only done the kerdi. Unmodified thinset sucks to work with and kerdi requires the unmodified thinset. Laticrete is a good brand.

 

[joefromga]

Redguard is the toughest stuff once dry that I've ever seen. This stuff is amazing.

 

[Cord]

Redguard is the toughest stuff once dry that I've ever seen. This stuff is amazing. View attachment 466531

Warning, cement board (specifically Durock) is NOT waterproof. Per the Durock literature:

Water Proofing: "...if a vapor retarder or waterproof construction is specified, a separate barrier must be applied over
or behind the USG Durockｮ cement board. If waterproofing is desired, use USG Durock Brand Tile Membrane or
USG Durock Waterproofing Membrane." http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_...durock-cement-board-system-guide-en-SA932.pdf

When building a shower, you want a "water proof" installation. If that was a tub alcove, then the installation would be acceptable. For it to form a water proof barrier, the membrane must be applied continuously.

 

[jlgurr]

Wow, if some of you guys lived near me I'd hire you in a heartbeat to do some remodeling for me!

Sent from my iPhone 2.0 using TractorByNet

 

[joefromga]

It's a tub.