Traction Kioti DK50 will not go into 4-WD

[AmberBear]

I own a 2003 DK50 that I bought new. Only had a few minor problems until last fall when I tried to use the 4-WD for icy conditions. Though the foot lever felt the same as I had often used it before, it failed to engage the 4-WD. I never had any grinding or crunching, just nothing but 2-WD.

I do not use the 4-WD regularly, only a few times a year in icy conditions. The rest of the time 2-WD works just fine.

I have found threads indicating the linkage can get rusty and difficult to engage, but mine has the same positive feel, but no 4-WD. I have tried squirting WD-40 into the linkage with no change. The linkage is difficult to get to and I doubt much is getting in there.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

I am hoping this has a cheap fix and not the horror stories of smaller DK models with electronic actuators. I am a long way from a dealer and the few experienced mechanics in the area are up to their ears in repairing logging equipment. I wish the logging industry in the area had not picked up so much.

I have tried backing up the tractor, lifting the front end with the loader. Same result, no 4-WD when I try to engage the foot-heel actuator.

Useful suggestions would be most welcome.

 

[Sysop]

Are you 100% sure the foot heel actuator is for 4WD? That would be a first for me, the foot heel actuator on every one of the 20 or so various makes and models of tractors I'm familiar with (none are Kioti), is to engage the rear wheel locker to lock the rear wheels in sync which provides allot of extra traction and can be mistaken for 4WD in some cases (the only way you know is if you still lose traction and both rears spin but the front does not).

#1, If you're 100% sure this foot-heel pedal is for 4WD, ignore me.
#2, If you're not 100% sure it is for 4WD, find out. Lockers are meant for additional straight line traction to pull a hill or get unstuck, and due to both wheels being locked to rotate at the same rotational speed, turning with the locker engaged repeatedly can result in driveline failure if the tires have good traction. If the ground is slick or soft, turning with the locker engaged wouldn't cause damage to the driveline due to the ability to have a tire slip as needed to maintain the 1 to 1 rotation of the tires during a turn but it's still not wise to do as a general operating practice.

As a simple test you could find some soft, wet, slick ground, hold that heel actuator down and do some tight circles first one way then the other. If you begin to either drag the wheel on the outside of the turn or spin the wheel on the inside of the turn but they are both rotating at the same speed, that is the locker. Doing such a thing without the locker engaged, the tire on the inside of the turn will turn slower than the tire on the outside so both can rotate at their respective ground speed. Most generally the locking devices inside the driveline will only engage and lock the driveline at specific points in the rotation of the tires, so when performing the above test, it is possible you would need to drive a couple circles with the locker engaged before things line up and it actually engages and the behavior described occurs.

Many of the tractors I've dealt with have had a lever somewhere out of the way around the seat for the 4WD. It generally just moves forward and reverse or up and down a notch to engage or disengage the 4WD. Some of the more highfalutin units have a pushbutton. Never have I seen a pedal for 4WD (not saying there isn't such a thing, just haven't seen it in my limited experiences).

I really hope that you find out that IS a locker, you're 4WD lever is someplace else you've overlooked, you've never needed 4WD before, and that nothing is broken at all. If that ends up being the case you're really in for a treat once ya find the REAL 4WD lever!

 

[adirondackmtnman]

Are you 100% sure the foot heel actuator is for 4WD? That would be a first for me, the foot heel actuator on every one of the 20 or so various makes and models of tractors I'm familiar with (none are Kioti), is to engage the rear wheel locker to lock the rear wheels in sync which provides allot of extra traction and can be mistaken for 4WD in some cases (the only way you know is if you still lose traction and both rears spin but the front does not).

#1, If you're 100% sure this foot-heel pedal is for 4WD, ignore me.
#2, If you're not 100% sure it is for 4WD, find out. Lockers are meant for additional straight line traction to pull a hill or get unstuck, and due to both wheels being locked to rotate at the same rotational speed, turning with the locker engaged repeatedly can result in driveline failure if the tires have good traction. If the ground is slick or soft, turning with the locker engaged wouldn't cause damage to the driveline due to the ability to have a tire slip as needed to maintain the 1 to 1 rotation of the tires during a turn but it's still not wise to do as a general operating practice.

As a simple test you could find some soft, wet, slick ground, hold that heel actuator down and do some tight circles first one way then the other. If you begin to either drag the wheel on the outside of the turn or spin the wheel on the inside of the turn but they are both rotating at the same speed, that is the locker. Doing such a thing without the locker engaged, the tire on the inside of the turn will turn slower than the tire on the outside so both can rotate at their respective ground speed. Most generally the locking devices inside the driveline will only engage and lock the driveline at specific points in the rotation of the tires, so when performing the above test, it is possible you would need to drive a couple circles with the locker engaged before things line up and it actually engages and the behavior described occurs.

Many of the tractors I've dealt with have had a lever somewhere out of the way around the seat for the 4WD. It generally just moves forward and reverse or up and down a notch to engage or disengage the 4WD. Some of the more highfalutin units have a pushbutton. Never have I seen a pedal for 4WD (not saying there isn't such a thing, just haven't seen it in my limited experiences).

I really hope that you find out that IS a locker, you're 4WD lever is someplace else you've overlooked, you've never needed 4WD before, and that nothing is broken at all. If that ends up being the case you're really in for a treat once ya find the REAL 4WD lever!

Ditto...Everything I've used, and all I have experience with is 2wd, had an actuator for the differential locker at the right heel. It may be way off base, but a call to any dealer could tell you for sure if this is indeed the right lever.

Sent from my LGL35G using TractorByNet

 

[rmorey]

AmberBear, on my DK40 there is a pair of switches on the dash LH side below the light switch. The left switch is 4wd, the right switch is hazard lites. Differential lock is on the foot pedal.

 

[AmberBear]

Thanks for the comments. Unfortunately, the 4-WD actuator is under the left heel and the rear-wheel locker is under the right heel. It has worked in the past and the clincher is the yellow label next to the left heel actuator, indicating UP for 2-WD and DOWN for 4-WD. I have a cab model with the light rocker switches overhead.

I think it is pretty certain my 4-WD is purely mechanically operated, while the early comments seem to be for electronically activated. I am still in a quandry. Please keep the comments coming please...

 

[BethelHntr]

If it is mechanically operated than that leaves a linkage issue or the front drive line as the easiest to fix and or diagnose. Do you have a shop or service manual? That too might help in finding the problem.

You should be able to pull the seat out and the seat pan to access all the linkage you mentioned was to tight to get to for inspection. Good luck!

 

[AmberBear]

Actually, the lever goes through the floor and the linkage goes into the side of what I would call the transfer case. I have found network threads that indicate it can get rusty and stiff.

I can get under there and move it with my hand, right up to the little (about the thickness of #10 wire) steel lever that goes into the case. Goes up and down with a small amount of pressure, but not floppy. It feels like it is actually moving something.

I have the feeling I am going to be pulling this thing apart myself.

I have a factory shop manual. Although it is supposed to be for my model etc, there are definitely some things that don't match up with what I have. I think the linkage is one of them. The shop manual is very sketchy in this area, with virtually no illustrations or pictures.

Please keep the comments and suggestions coming. Thanks for the help!

 

[BethelHntr]

If you have the means get that DK up in the air with some jack stands and see if all four tires are spinning with the engine running and in 4x.

If the linkage is working than you have either a xfer case issue or front axle issue.

Make sure the gear boxes are full with there respected fluids and check the front drive line.

 

[AmberBear]

Tried putting it up in the air. Engine running, 4-wd engaged - rear wheels turning, front wheels are not. I agree that is the transfer case or front axle could be the problem. It might also be the linkage became uncoupled inside the transfer case. In any event, this means pulling some stuff apart that I hoped would not have to be done.

Do you have any suggestions as to what I might do to pare down the possible defect areas? Or what you suspect might be a more likely problem than another, based on the admittedly sketchy info I have provided?

If not, I guess I would start following the linkage where it goes into the transfer case and follow it to the front wheels and hopefully locate where the two are not connecting. Unless someone has a different plan of action.

First, I will recheck the respected fluids. How would I check the front drive line? I can rotate the front wheels freely when the tractor is up on 4 jack-stands. They can be freely rotated whether 4-wd drive is engaged or not and act the same if the engine is running or not.

This is definitely not my forte, but such is life.

Thanks for the help

 

[BethelHntr]

Make sure to put the 4x lever in 4x with the engine off, Crawl under the DK and see if the linkage is actually engaging the xfer case into the 4x notch. You might be able to move the lever more than the linkage has manually.

This could be that the linkage has come loose and could be causing your problem.

I'm am just throwing some ideas around in case it might have been overlooked. I hope it's a easy fix!

 

[SSdoxie]

A few checks to help identify where the problem is:
When you had front wheels off the ground and rotated one wheel, did the other wheel rotate in opposite direction at same speed? If it did not then problem is in the front drive axle.
At the shift lever going into gear case; remove the linkage rod going up through the floor, put an alignment mark on the end of shaft going into the gear case and on the lever. Shift the lever by hand, press firmly and see if the marks are still lined up. If marks are not aligned, the pin going through the shaft is bent or broken.
If the first 2 tests are fine, remove the front axle drive shaft cover (probably 1 bolt at each end) slide the telescoping cover back to see the shaft. At 1 end the shaft will have a pin through the shaft yoke and the gear shaft, at the other end there should be a splined coupler with a pin through the middle. Remove both pins and take drive shaft out to inspect. Then try rotating the output shaft at the gear box. With transmission in gear, wheels on the ground, you should be able to rotate the shaft while in rear wheel drive only and not able to rotate in 4X. If you can rotate it in 4X then problem is inside the gear case.

 

[k0ua]

A few checks to help identify where the problem is:
When you had front wheels off the ground and rotated one wheel, did the other wheel rotate in opposite direction at same speed? If it did not then problem is in the front drive axle.
At the shift lever going into gear case; remove the linkage rod going up through the floor, put an alignment mark on the end of shaft going into the gear case and on the lever. Shift the lever by hand, press firmly and see if the marks are still lined up. If marks are not aligned, the pin going through the shaft is bent or broken.
If the first 2 tests are fine, remove the front axle drive shaft cover (probably 1 bolt at each end) slide the telescoping cover back to see the shaft. At 1 end the shaft will have a pin through the shaft yoke and the gear shaft, at the other end there should be a splined coupler with a pin through the middle. Remove both pins and take drive shaft out to inspect. Then try rotating the output shaft at the gear box. With transmission in gear, wheels on the ground, you should be able to rotate the shaft while in rear wheel drive only and not able to rotate in 4X. If you can rotate it in 4X then problem is inside the gear case.

You always have the most logical, easy to follow and understand diagnostic procedures:thumbsup:

James K0UA

 

[AmberBear]

A few checks to help identify where the problem is:
When you had front wheels off the ground and rotated one wheel, did the other wheel rotate in opposite direction at same speed? If it did not then problem is in the front drive axle.
At the shift lever going into gear case; remove the linkage rod going up through the floor, put an alignment mark on the end of shaft going into the gear case and on the lever. Shift the lever by hand, press firmly and see if the marks are still lined up. If marks are not aligned, the pin going through the shaft is bent or broken.
If the first 2 tests are fine, remove the front axle drive shaft cover (probably 1 bolt at each end) slide the telescoping cover back to see the shaft. At 1 end the shaft will have a pin through the shaft yoke and the gear shaft, at the other end there should be a splined coupler with a pin through the middle. Remove both pins and take drive shaft out to inspect. Then try rotating the output shaft at the gear box. With transmission in gear, wheels on the ground, you should be able to rotate the shaft while in rear wheel drive only and not able to rotate in 4X. If you can rotate it in 4X then problem is inside the gear case.

From AmberBear
With the front end lifted, when one wheel is rotated, the other turns in the opposite direction. So, the front end seems to be OK at this point.

The shift lever into gear case is not exactly as I interpret from the above description. It appears to be one piece where it goes into the transmission case, the rod does not seem to be visible from looking outside the transmission case. Like the rod shaft fits into a cupped hole as opposed to a hole drilled completely through the shaft yoke. The travel of the yoke is only about 1/8 of a revolution, it seems pretty short, but it seems to be the same amount of travel as it had when it worked properly. If there is a pin for the shaft, (and I think there is) it appears to be on the inside of the transmission. These are just my suppositions, I know none of this for certain. I removed what linkage I could, no effect that I could observe.

Will attempt removal of front drive shaft cover tomorrow, unless some kind soul has an insight that will direct me to another possible solution.

Thanks much for the suggestions!

 

[adirondackmtnman]

It has worked in the past and the clincher is the yellow label next to the left heel actuator, indicating UP for 2-WD and DOWN for 4-WD./QUOTE]

Just curious...how does one disengage the 4wd after engaging it? Is it a two sided toe-heel lever, or does the operator have to try to catch their boot on it and raise it? Have you tried to disengage and engage it again? Possibly while moving may help things mesh if something's out of alignment...just grabbing at straws there, your machine may not allow shifting into 4wd while moving...

Sent from my LGL35G using TractorByNet

 

[AmberBear]

The 4WD actuator on my DK50 is a "T" handle that can be pushed down with the left heel. To disengage it, I just pull it up with my left hand. My right heel actuator is to lock the rear wheels. I always have engaged/disengaged the 4WD when the tractor is at idle and not moving. I have tried to engage/disengage it many times. I have tried backing it up and then attempted engaging/disengaging, nothing. I have tried it with all of the linkage removed and crawling under the tractor to reposition the lever where it enters the transmission case, nothing. Still in 2WD drive. I will check the front drive shaft next.

I will follow up on the other suggestions and give a status

 

[AmberBear]

:dance1:
Many thanks to all who responded. Special thanks to Dennis & Scott. It is fixed - sort of. The problem is the left heel actuator, specifically the linkage. Following Dennis's suggestion, I removed the linkage and attempted to engage it by hand. No luck.

The linkage lever that attaches to the shaft that goes into the transmission is flat stock, bent in a sharp edged "S". The lower end of the "S" is welded to about 2" of tube stock that fits over the shaft that enters the transmission. The tube stock is pinned to the shaft using a hollow pin. I was able to stick a solid pin through the hollow pin in the top and bottom position and the transitory positions in between. In other words, the tube stock pinned to the shaft is intact and undamaged. Nothing wrong there that I could observe.

According to the shop manuals and other documents I could review, the shaft that rotates like what I call a Bendix gear that somehow engages the FWD to the drive shaft. The Bendix gear shaft rotates only about 22 degrees to do the actual engagement. It just does not feel like it is far enough.

The short of it is if I lift the front wheels off the ground and with the 4WD linkage removed, I can engage the 4WD drive if I reach under the tractor and jiggle the sharp "S" welded to the end of the tube that is hollow pinned to the shaft that goes into the transmission while slowly rotating one of the front wheels back and forth by hand. The shaft seems to rotate just slightly more than 22 degrees and locks in solidly.

I suspect the other end of the shaft that goes into the transmission has a slight burr from abuse when my tractor was borrowed. You would think I would learn not to loan my tools. In any event, I can get it into 4WD without spending a small fortune.

It works, that is good enough for me. However, any constructive comments would be most welcome.

thanks to all, Mike

 

[AmberBear]

:dance1:
Many thanks to all who responded. Special thanks to Dennis & Scott. It is fixed - sort of. The problem is the left heel actuator, specifically the linkage. Following Dennis's suggestion, I removed the linkage and attempted to engage it by hand. No luck.

The linkage lever that attaches to the shaft that goes into the transmission is flat stock, bent in a sharp edged "S". The lower end of the "S" is welded to about 2" of tube stock that fits over the shaft that enters the transmission. The tube stock is pinned to the shaft using a hollow pin. I was able to stick a solid pin through the hollow pin in the top and bottom position and the transitory positions in between. In other words, the tube stock pinned to the shaft is intact and undamaged. Nothing wrong there that I could observe.

According to the shop manuals and other documents I could review, the shaft that rotates like what I call a Bendix gear that somehow engages the FWD to the drive shaft. The Bendix gear shaft rotates only about 22 degrees to do the actual engagement. It just does not feel like it is far enough.

The short of it is if I lift the front wheels off the ground and with the 4WD linkage removed, I can engage the 4WD drive if I reach under the tractor and jiggle the sharp "S" welded to the end of the tube that is hollow pinned to the shaft that goes into the transmission while slowly rotating one of the front wheels back and forth by hand. The shaft seems to rotate just slightly more than 22 degrees and locks in solidly.

I suspect the other end of the shaft that goes into the transmission has a slight burr from abuse when my tractor was borrowed. You would think I would learn not to loan my tools. In any event, I can get it into 4WD without spending a small fortune.

It works, that is good enough for me. However, any constructive comments would be most welcome.

thanks to all, Mike

 

[SSdoxie]

The linkage I described is what is currently used on the CK models. Is a cast/machined shaft that goes into case and has a 90 degree offset for it to hook into the splined sliding collar. Guess Daedong upgraded the design to make the shaft stronger so the week point, if try to force it, is in the roll pin at the outside.
Sounds like someone tried to force yours without putting F/R lever in neutral or stepping on the clutch and bent something internal. Any chance there is an access or inspection plate on the gear case that you could get in there without splitting tractor. Pr0bably too much to wish for.

 

[AmberBear]

There is no access or inspection plate. Such is life...

 

[AmberBear]

Dennis, are you implying that the linkage shaft actually rotates 90 degrees? Or is that just the offset and the rotation is what I observed - about 22 degrees.
Mike