Kioti = Heavy!

[Zoomie]

Why are the Kioti models so much heavier than their counterparts?

The CK20HST weighs in at 1993 lbs vs the B7510 at 1357.

I've looked at both, and although a side by side comparison isn't possible due to the distance between dealers, they don't seem to be that far apart in size... just weight!

BTW, the new CK25 goes a whopping 3000 lbs!

 

[GerardC]

Do you find this a good thing or a bad thing? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif G

 

[Zoomie]

Depends on intended uses I s'pose.

If you are going to just be "tractoring" the extra weight should prove beneficial, but if intending a multi-purpose, such as "lawn" mowing, the extra weight might be detrimental.

Just curious if the Kioti is "thicker" thru the middle, or crossways, that accounts for so much extra weight.

 

[bluechip]

Somewhere I picked up that the Japanese like to use alot of aluminum castings, whereas in Korea, cast iron is preferred.
In general, I think Japan's lack of natural resources has led them to engineer lighter equipment. I had some exposure to this when I was in the machine tool industry, selling Japanese equpment, seemed we were always lighter than the competition.

About the only tractor use I can think of that weight is not desireable is lawnmowing, it certainly helps with most any type of ground engaging equipment, and other mult-purpose like FEL or backhoe work.

Now if we are mowing, its hard to beat a ZTR mower, but that is a topic for another discussion...

If I'm off base about Kubota's use of aluminum, someone please correct me, I hate to post something I cant recall the source, and in this case, I cant. But if aluminum does not explain it, than the only thing it could be is thinner and or smaller components.

 

[Zoomie]

Bluechip,

Thanks for the reply, and I can agree with the benefits of added weight for most ground engaging activities.

Since I've not been on one, I'm wondering about the power of the CK20, given it has a motor similar in output to others in the same size class, but weighs some 40-45% more. Would it be more prone to getting bogged down than the lighter tractors in the same class?

 

[To20Chris]

I did the same comparison this year! I looked at the B7510 and B7610 vs the CK20HST. I liked the CK20HST better, and did the deal on one - then I switched to the LK3054. The B series Kubotas are built on a ladder frame, while the Kioti CK20 (and all the others) are built in traditional tractor style, with the gear casings forming the structure. This will account for most of the weight difference. If you go to the B2x10, you get a re-inforced frame. The B7800 may have that too. If you are going to mow or to transport it, the light weight may be an advantage. If you are goint to dig, then weight is helpful. If you search the Kioti buying/pricing forum for the B7510, you should get some comparison info.

Good luck - they are both nice machines, but there are some significant differences that will make one better suited for your particular use.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

My understanding of the weight difference from some brands (Zetor i know for sure) is due to the fact that by making the castings larger than they need to they don't need the same level of quality control to ensure the proper strength and some tollerances. Kioti's don't weight that much more than everything else so this many not nessesary be the case with them.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I tend to agree with Neil about the thickness of the castings as being one POSSIBLE reason why SOME tractors (not necessarily Kioti) are heavy. The Japanese have some of the best metilurgical casting techniques in the world and they have the ability to use the highest quality alloys, the higher the quality castings often translate into thinner but stronger castings. As a general rule, thicker often translates into lower strength and heavier weight to compensate. This is a real broad stroke folks, I am not picking on Kioti. But it probably does apply to some of the Chinese brands, and as Neil mentioned perhaps to Zetor and probably to some of the older Eastern European units like Belarus.

As for the original post, I think the real question is what is the tractor going to be used for? If a combination of mowing, transporting or tilling takes 60% of the time or more, then I would opt for a light weight tractor. If is being trailered around to various sites, I would opt for a light weight tractor. Given the size of the unit discussed, I suspect there will be no traditional PLOWING of any fields, but perhaps a tiller might be used, again, I would opt for a lighter tractor for tilling my garden because I don't want to compact the soil any more than necessary.

Now if the tractor will spend its life doing hard labor as a FEL machine or digging ditches, then I'd opt for a heavy tractor. When using an FEL I tend to want as much weight under me as possible. Ditto a backhoe, ditto boxblade or straight blade work. Weight in those jobs equals stability and traction. But you can always add temporary weights.

Really what I think it boils down to for the homeowner/tractor owner who does not rely on his tractor for a living is what color do you like the best! Or a combination of color + dealer relationship and who will give you a free hat when you buy your tractor.

 

[To20Chris]

The B series Kubotas don't HAVE any castings between the front and the back - it's a steel ladder frame. Look under one. There is simply not that much difference in technology between these companies. The CK20HST weighs 50% more than a B7510 because there is a fundamental difference in the structure, not because Kubota's technology is so much more advanced. Advanced casting technology and materials isn't going to buy you a 30% weight reduction on the entire machine.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I am not out to feed the brand fire, but i have a good perspective here. I sell Kubota and New Holland side by side. These ladder vs casting is one of the biggest difference between the tractors. Kubota does a few technological things that are possible because of the ladder. The positioning of the mid pto mounts, gear boxes, transmission, etc are all optimized to give better weight distribution, ground clearance and mounting flexibility. Case in point, with a mid mount mower the BX's will almost always have the best ground clearance because the ladder positions the drive shaft connections higher than a cast design. People like to compare weight because its part of the numbers game, on tractors of this class we tend to find its pretty irrevelant.