Kitchen Remodel

HGM · Jun 2, 2006

( I'm certainly no expert, but I know of a lot of houses with the dropped ceiling and I've never seen anything bigger than 2 x 4s used. I would think that should be plenty. )

I'd be a bit leary if it werent trussed.... If you plan on tying the 2x's to the roof truss', then you should be fine.. Just an opinion from a guy that stays in Holiday Inn Express'.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

HGM · Jun 2, 2006

( I'm certainly no expert, but I know of a lot of houses with the dropped ceiling and I've never seen anything bigger than 2 x 4s used. I would think that should be plenty. )

I'd be a bit leary if it werent trussed.... If you plan on tying the 2x's to the roof truss', then you should be fine.. Just an opinion from a guy that stays in Holiday Inn Express'.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

EddieWalker · Jun 3, 2006

Sounds like you shouldn't have any problems with your floor. To avoid sqeeks down the road, I'd glue and screw everything down.

I'm confused about what you mean by a "false one"

Are you spanning the kitchen with a framework below the existing ceiling?

If so, then you will have to size the lumber to the span and tie it together. The trick is to make sure it doesn't move to the point your sheetrock will crack. Houses move all the time. 2x4's are fine to anchor the sheetrock, but you have to have be sure you get it all tied together and secure first.

I've never hung 5/8 or thicker rock, just half inch and 3/8's. The small stuff is for going over another layer to smooth out problems from a bad first install. From what I've heard, the thicker stuff is stiffer and can handle larger spans.

With 12 inch centers, you can easily handle half inch sheetrock. I don't know why you'd want to spend more on heavier materail?????

Eddie

EddieWalker · Jun 3, 2006

Sounds like you shouldn't have any problems with your floor. To avoid sqeeks down the road, I'd glue and screw everything down.

I'm confused about what you mean by a "false one"

Are you spanning the kitchen with a framework below the existing ceiling?

If so, then you will have to size the lumber to the span and tie it together. The trick is to make sure it doesn't move to the point your sheetrock will crack. Houses move all the time. 2x4's are fine to anchor the sheetrock, but you have to have be sure you get it all tied together and secure first.

I've never hung 5/8 or thicker rock, just half inch and 3/8's. The small stuff is for going over another layer to smooth out problems from a bad first install. From what I've heard, the thicker stuff is stiffer and can handle larger spans.

With 12 inch centers, you can easily handle half inch sheetrock. I don't know why you'd want to spend more on heavier materail?????

Eddie

ScottAR · Jun 3, 2006

5/8" rock is fire rated... I will show less waves than 1/2" but it's a bugger to hang. 4x12 weighs over 100lbs...

Maybe required for code?

ScottAR · Jun 3, 2006

5/8" rock is fire rated... I will show less waves than 1/2" but it's a bugger to hang. 4x12 weighs over 100lbs...

Maybe required for code?

WhyNot · Jun 3, 2006

buy false I mean there will be an air space between the joist that support the second floor bath room and the new ceiling doing it this way since the drainage for the bath wood be a real bugger to modify to make it all fit up in to "true" 2 X 8 joist. The reason I would like to use 5/8 is because there will be no popcorn I have been told before and above /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif that the 5/8 is the way to go for a nice looking ceiling. As far as weight is concerned it woud only be six sheet's. I did get to thinkin' today about all the work that goes into framing every thing and then get's covered up to hopefully never be seen again only for some one who don't know ask what took so long /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

WhyNot · Jun 3, 2006

buy false I mean there will be an air space between the joist that support the second floor bath room and the new ceiling doing it this way since the drainage for the bath wood be a real bugger to modify to make it all fit up in to "true" 2 X 8 joist. The reason I would like to use 5/8 is because there will be no popcorn I have been told before and above /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif that the 5/8 is the way to go for a nice looking ceiling. As far as weight is concerned it woud only be six sheet's. I did get to thinkin' today about all the work that goes into framing every thing and then get's covered up to hopefully never be seen again only for some one who don't know ask what took so long /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Builder · Jun 4, 2006

( thank's for the replies guy's. Hardwood is going to be the material used for the finished floor the parent's have not picked out what type or brand. I seen your replies after I already framed the floor out 16 in on center so I went back and added a lot of extra blocking I will also add that I used 2 by 10's with two 2 by 10 cross braces spaced evenly and I'm going to deck it in 3/4 t&g. I will post some more pics tomorrow. But the next question is for the ceiling It will be a false one, only weight it will carry would be the 5/8 rock so for max height do you's think I could get away with 2 by 4's at 12" o.c. supported above from the rafter's and where it need's to be notched maybe 1/2 in for the upstair's plumbing reinforce it with some 3/4 ply or should I just go with the 2 by 6's thank's again /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
)s

Which way are you running your ceiling 2-by's? Perpendicular or parallel with the floor joists above? It doesn't really matter what dimension you use for the ceiling since it will be supplemented by the stronger floor joists. 2x6 would be nicer if you run parallel (nailed to the side) of the upstairs floor joists because you have more nailing surface since they're taller to nail to the floor joists and more "meat" to cut out for pipes/wires, but you might end up with a lower ceiling. Me? I'd screw 2x4 flat to the bottom of the joists & just skip over pipes & wires and put a metal nail gaurd electricians use over the gaps so you don't screw drywall into the pipe/wire. If the floor joists are sagging, then nail the 2 by's next to the floor joists to create a new straight ceiling jois for your drywall.

On the floor: As long as the hardwood flooring goes across the floor joists perpendicularly and you've used 3/4" T&G with glue, you'll be fine. Make sure your joists are all crowned up, and plane out any severe crowns in the floor joists before you lay your ply.

Builder · Jun 4, 2006

( thank's for the replies guy's. Hardwood is going to be the material used for the finished floor the parent's have not picked out what type or brand. I seen your replies after I already framed the floor out 16 in on center so I went back and added a lot of extra blocking I will also add that I used 2 by 10's with two 2 by 10 cross braces spaced evenly and I'm going to deck it in 3/4 t&g. I will post some more pics tomorrow. But the next question is for the ceiling It will be a false one, only weight it will carry would be the 5/8 rock so for max height do you's think I could get away with 2 by 4's at 12" o.c. supported above from the rafter's and where it need's to be notched maybe 1/2 in for the upstair's plumbing reinforce it with some 3/4 ply or should I just go with the 2 by 6's thank's again /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
)s

Which way are you running your ceiling 2-by's? Perpendicular or parallel with the floor joists above? It doesn't really matter what dimension you use for the ceiling since it will be supplemented by the stronger floor joists. 2x6 would be nicer if you run parallel (nailed to the side) of the upstairs floor joists because you have more nailing surface since they're taller to nail to the floor joists and more "meat" to cut out for pipes/wires, but you might end up with a lower ceiling. Me? I'd screw 2x4 flat to the bottom of the joists & just skip over pipes & wires and put a metal nail gaurd electricians use over the gaps so you don't screw drywall into the pipe/wire. If the floor joists are sagging, then nail the 2 by's next to the floor joists to create a new straight ceiling jois for your drywall.

On the floor: As long as the hardwood flooring goes across the floor joists perpendicularly and you've used 3/4" T&G with glue, you'll be fine. Make sure your joists are all crowned up, and plane out any severe crowns in the floor joists before you lay your ply.

dooleysm · Jun 5, 2006

We used 1/2" for our walls and 5/8" for the ceilings. I never knew any different, but was told it was to slow the spread of a fire.

I can whole heartedly attest to the weight difference in 1/2 and 5/8.

My shoulders ache at the memory of hanging drywall every night after work one July.

dooleysm · Jun 5, 2006

We used 1/2" for our walls and 5/8" for the ceilings. I never knew any different, but was told it was to slow the spread of a fire.

I can whole heartedly attest to the weight difference in 1/2 and 5/8.

My shoulders ache at the memory of hanging drywall every night after work one July.

Farwell · Jun 5, 2006

I always rent a panel jack when I hang 5/8 sheet rock on ceilings. It is hard enough carrying the sheet rock from the truck to the room. I needed help lifting a 10 foot 5/8 inch sheet up on to the panel jack but was able to carry it with one of the Home Depot panel carrier thingies.
Farwell

Farwell · Jun 5, 2006

I always rent a panel jack when I hang 5/8 sheet rock on ceilings. It is hard enough carrying the sheet rock from the truck to the room. I needed help lifting a 10 foot 5/8 inch sheet up on to the panel jack but was able to carry it with one of the Home Depot panel carrier thingies.
Farwell

CurlyDave · Jun 6, 2006

This is a very small job, but look into getting a sheet rock contractor to hang and tape the rock for you.

I have hung whole house worth of rock, only to discover that I could have hired it all out for a few percent over what the materials cost. In fact, I bet if you could get a guy to do it, the total cost would be less than the materials plus the jack rental.

Hanging 5/8" rock on the ceiling is not going to be a sunday school picnic, even with a jack. If the primary reason you want 5/8" is fire code, what does the code say about a 1/2" layer plus a 3/8" layer? I would rather do that any day, plus I wouldn't have to rent a jack -- just make some supports with a 2x4 and a piece of plywood. That alone would save the extra cost of a double layer of rock.

The way to prevent ripples in the rock is to hang it properly on the right studs/joists in the first place, and get it professionally taped.

CurlyDave · Jun 6, 2006

This is a very small job, but look into getting a sheet rock contractor to hang and tape the rock for you.

I have hung whole house worth of rock, only to discover that I could have hired it all out for a few percent over what the materials cost. In fact, I bet if you could get a guy to do it, the total cost would be less than the materials plus the jack rental.

Hanging 5/8" rock on the ceiling is not going to be a sunday school picnic, even with a jack. If the primary reason you want 5/8" is fire code, what does the code say about a 1/2" layer plus a 3/8" layer? I would rather do that any day, plus I wouldn't have to rent a jack -- just make some supports with a 2x4 and a piece of plywood. That alone would save the extra cost of a double layer of rock.

The way to prevent ripples in the rock is to hang it properly on the right studs/joists in the first place, and get it professionally taped.

Farwell · Jun 6, 2006

Dave,
I think that the 5/8" sheet rock has a fire retardant built into the panel that the standard 3/8 and 1/2 inch does not.
I am getting old and feeble so a panel jack is the only way I can work sheet rock.
You are "sooooo" right on hiring someone to hang and tape the sheet rock for you not costing much more than you can do it yourself. In most cases it will look much better and if you are planning on selling or renting the property it will be finished in a much shorter length of time. Haven't kept up with real estate tax laws but if you hire the work done you could write it off of your taxes but if you do it yourself you can't write off the labor. That was how it worked when I was into buying and selling in the 70's and 80's.
Farwell

Farwell · Jun 6, 2006

Dave,
I think that the 5/8" sheet rock has a fire retardant built into the panel that the standard 3/8 and 1/2 inch does not.
I am getting old and feeble so a panel jack is the only way I can work sheet rock.
You are "sooooo" right on hiring someone to hang and tape the sheet rock for you not costing much more than you can do it yourself. In most cases it will look much better and if you are planning on selling or renting the property it will be finished in a much shorter length of time. Haven't kept up with real estate tax laws but if you hire the work done you could write it off of your taxes but if you do it yourself you can't write off the labor. That was how it worked when I was into buying and selling in the 70's and 80's.
Farwell

bandit67 · Jun 6, 2006

WhyNot,

I don't know about back east, but out here, we can get 1/2" ceiling gyp board (sheetrock), which is designed to better span the typical 2' centers of roof trusses without sagging. I think both the paper and the gypsum formulations are slightly different than standard 1/2" sheetrock. The good drywall contractors out here swear by the 1/2" ceiling rock, as it is easier to hang than the 5/8" stuff. It is more $$ than the regular 1/2", but a bit less than the 5/8", which is only available as fire rated out here. Maybe something to look into.

bandit67 · Jun 6, 2006

WhyNot,

I don't know about back east, but out here, we can get 1/2" ceiling gyp board (sheetrock), which is designed to better span the typical 2' centers of roof trusses without sagging. I think both the paper and the gypsum formulations are slightly different than standard 1/2" sheetrock. The good drywall contractors out here swear by the 1/2" ceiling rock, as it is easier to hang than the 5/8" stuff. It is more $$ than the regular 1/2", but a bit less than the 5/8", which is only available as fire rated out here. Maybe something to look into.