knocking noise

/ knocking noise #41  
The more you listen the more you think valve train. The other issue is how much sound is lost in the recording?

I definitely agree about "mechanics" today. True diagnostics and testing of parts before replacing is a dying breed.

Hopefully the OP will let us know if he hears it sitting still.
 
/ knocking noise #42  
I still don't understand if it could make the noise when not moving? If it could, then I would do the following:

Yes, I'd still check valve clearances and the clearance on the compression release. That isn't a total of more than one hour mechanical time. Of course what they have for mechanics today are more like warranty part replacers. Their mechanic and service rep may neither of them ever set valve clearances. It's commonly done at 600 to 800 hrs.If so, I wouldn't want him learning on mine.

As for checking if the noise is a rattle coming from the EGR valve, it is simple to just find the rubber pressure hose from the manifold to the EGR mechanism and disconnect it to test. Pliug the hose temporily with a pencil. It's usually a small diameter hose - roughly 1/4 " diameter and fits onto barb connections.
rScotty

No EGR on Branson tractors. At least up to 60HP.

The 2515 is under 25HP, so no Emissions stuff either.
 
/ knocking noise
  • Thread Starter
#43  
It usually doesn't get bad until I have been using it for a while. I guess it would be ok to let it idle at 1500 for 30 minutes or so?
 
/ knocking noise #44  
That should work. Or work it for awhile then test.
 
/ knocking noise #45  
It usually doesn't get bad until I have been using it for a while. I guess it would be ok to let it idle at 1500 for 30 minutes or so?

I would say that would be fine. Keep an eye on the temperature. Not all engines cool well at idle. But I'm curious why you would even be concerned with idling for half an hour?? That should make no difference to the engine at all.

BTW, nice of them to say that they would fix whatever if it goes wrong? I like people who deal that way. Although that is counting on their memory of the conversation. Do you think they will remember saying that?

OK, now to mechanical stuff:

With most things engine-wise, noisy parts get quieter as the parts heat up and clearances get to normal running values. An exception to that would be valve to rocker arm (also called tappet) clearance noise - which can increase as the temperature rises, particularly at higher RPM. Too much valve clearance makes noise but is not an immediate failure indication, simply a notice that it should be adjusted.

That is not a difficult job. Any old-time mechanic can do it for you. Today on cars it is rarely done, but on diesels and industrial engines it is a normal maintence item. I admit it is an item which is often ignored because it rarely changes after breakin of 50/100 hrs. And also because having a valve clearance a few "thou" out of spec is where that valve "wants to be" and in my experience better left alone anyway. But that wouldn't make noise.

What a mechanic would do is take off the valve cover - having on hand first a new gasket in case of need. BTW, you should have that gasket anyway. Taking off the cover is a matter of only a few bolts at the very top of the engine & easy to do. Then he will rotate the engine slowly by hand via a socket on the front of the crankshat nose while looking at, feeling, and possibly measuring the valve to rocker arm clearance as the valves open and close. He would be looking for something obviously way out of spec. Probably double the normal clearance. Easy to see and feel. Having one valve way out isn't unusual on a new engine because of the way valves settle into their sockets, & is easy to see. Anything even roughly close +/- 20% of normal clearance is not going to make that much noise.

Then he will pull the dash lever while watching to confirm that the compression release - if yours has a compression release -is operating properly and not a source of rattle. They often are because the spring which holds the compression release away from the tappet is not tensioned right. He would then set the clearance on anything that is way out of spec, and put the cover back on. It's an easy job. You can do it yourself if you'd rather. Every shop manual tells how. Tools needed are very basic.

rScotty
 
/ knocking noise #46  
There's no compression release on these. I'd hope the dealer checked the valve clearances and inspected the top of the valve train for loose or missing parts.
 
/ knocking noise #47  
There's no compression release on these. I'd hope the dealer checked the valve clearances and inspected the top of the valve train for loose or missing parts.

I would not count on that!
 
/ knocking noise
  • Thread Starter
#48  
I got the tractor back. Someone asked if I could duplicate the sound without moving the tractor. So here is it. I did not know the microphone was going to clip when I got so close. But you can still hear the tick or knock over the sound of the engine.

 
/ knocking noise #49  
Okay,
I thought it was only moving forward and backward. Listening now to the last post, it sounds like valves, yet there is a sound I detect that reminds me of the loose flywheel bolts on my Ford 302 after it was rebuilt.
hugs, Brandi
 
/ knocking noise #50  
I got the tractor back. Someone asked if I could duplicate the sound without moving the tractor. So here is it. I did not know the microphone was going to clip when I got so close. But you can still hear the tick or knock over the sound of the engine.

Thanks for trying it stationary. I cannot help here. Maybe someone else can tell. To my ears the tick or high pitched knocking sound has become just enough more irratic that when I compare this recording to the one before I would no longer make the same call. The constant high pitched "shattering rattle" which I recognized before as as as valve train noise no longer sounds so regular, and the pitch is way off.

I can't tell if that is the result of my ears, the motor, or the clipping algorithm. Of the three I'd guess that the more irratic nature of the sound in this recording is an artifact of the clipping algorithm. The fact that you recognize it as clipping tells me that you probably recognize why that can happen.

Anyway, when I compare this to what we heard before there is less information here. Not enough for me, although other ears may pick something up.

Bottom line is that listening to engine sounds always results in a guess at best. About all one can by listening is to narrow down the possibilities. After that, you still have to go with your best guess and take a look.
Sorry,
rScotty
 
/ knocking noise #52  
It might be the same "knocking" sound I have after all. To me, the sound seems to come from the bell housing area, but still hard to be 100%.

I was checking the service manual. While the Branson HST models doesn't have a clutch, they do have a damper. So it might be just the springs making noise.

Mine has the dumper built in on the clutch, like most clutches. but the HST models, only use the damper.

HST:

Branson damper HST.jpg


Gear:

Branson clutch damper.jpg
 
/ knocking noise #53  
Have you put a stethoscope on the engine while it痴 making the sound. Often times I can isolate an issue using that technique.

Amazon.com: Lisle 525 Mechanic's Stethoscope: Automotive

+1 on this!

I agree with Scotty, now it is even more of mystery to me. It very well may be coming from the bell housing area but at one point I was suspecting a pulley noise.

Ptsg, you probably have the best shot of getting this one correct. I have not noticed that sound on mine yet but it could be because of the Cab. I will run it some this weekend and will see if I can duplicate it walking around the tractor.
 
/ knocking noise #54  
/ knocking noise #56  
I use a two foot long straight slot screwdriver.
hugs, Brandi

That's one of the 'tricks of the trade' that I learnt in the Navy... I was hesitant to mention it here for fear of being called 'mad'.

You put the blade on what you want to listen to, the handle into your ear and 'plug' the other ear with your finger. It works... especially in confined spaces.
 
/ knocking noise #57  
My 2515h was experiencing the same and I worked it until one day it completely lost power. This happened at about 50-60 hours.

It smoked like crazy and I could barely get it onto the trailer to take to the dealer. Turns out it was a bad valve and I had a new cylinder head and gaskets replaced. Picture of everything they replaced attached.

After about 2-3 weeks I got it back. Power restored, drives fine but I definitely still hear a slight knock still. I reached out to the dealer again and they said to just continue working it. The response was that the 2515 has a slight rattle as compared to the 3015 or larger. 🤷🏻. IMG_5288.JPG
 
/ knocking noise #58  
My 2515h was experiencing the same and I worked it until one day it completely lost power. This happened at about 50-60 hours.

It smoked like crazy and I could barely get it onto the trailer to take to the dealer. Turns out it was a bad valve and I had a new cylinder head and gaskets replaced. Picture of everything they replaced attached.

After about 2-3 weeks I got it back. Power restored, drives fine but I definitely still hear a slight knock still. I reached out to the dealer again and they said to just continue working it. The response was that the 2515 has a slight rattle as compared to the 3015 or larger. 🤷🏻. View attachment 665579

First of all, Welcome to TBN and thank you for sharing your experiences. I hope you continue to share.

Would you say the noise you are hearing now is different than before you experienced the failure?
 
/ knocking noise #59  
First of all, Welcome to TBN and thank you for sharing your experiences. I hope you continue to share.

Would you say the noise you are hearing now is different than before you experienced the failure?

Thanks.

The noise I’m hearing now is different. Not as consistent. The knock was more pronounced before and now it’s almost more of a rattle at idling RPMs. I don’t really hear it at higher RPMs. Here is what it sounds like now. Kind of hard to hear though like this...

youtu.be/z0t7d_18m-k
 
/ knocking noise #60  
That's one of the 'tricks of the trade' that I learnt in the Navy... I was hesitant to mention it here for fear of being called 'mad'.

You put the blade on what you want to listen to, the handle into your ear and 'plug' the other ear with your finger. It works... especially in confined spaces.

No problem. I'll be the "mad" one here. The screwdriver is great for getting in near moving pulleys and belts.

Have you ever used two mirrors, out in the sunlight, to shine light into a dark spot on an engine? My first boss taught me to do it out on the ramp while running up engines. The second mirror really lights it up better than a flashlight.
hugs, Brandi
 

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