Mowing Kubota B2650 not enough power for FDR2572 mower?

[Johnkn]

If you watch the video, I demonstrate that low range, full throttle can not keep up. PTO speeds drop into the mid 300's.

Low range dogs out hard as well and drops to less than walking speed. Unacceptable. My Craftsman Garden Tractor will literally mow circles around this thing.

I'm feeling for you but you may be better served with that lesser machine for those mowing duties (or quickly upgrading to a larger tractor before the deprecation hits. . One might hope the Kubota would serve you but you are pushing thousands of pounds more weight. and with those big (I'm envious) rear filled tires that weigh a $hitton more to be pushing up the hills, and with the hp sucking finish mower it may not be up to that particular task. Absolute best of luck.

 

[Rock Crawler]

Yes, I'm guessing....
1900 lb bare tractor
200 lb backhoe subframe
750 lb rim guard
800 lb loader
100 lb for the bigger wheels and tires.
750 lb mower
7% gear reduction loss, not a huge amount, but I'm sure it plays a part.
The FDR2572 has a much larger gear box, I'm sure it also eats more power to spin compared to the standard/lower HP rated 72" Land Pride deck.

4,500 lbs give or take as it is seen in the video.

 

[MossRoad]

Your tractor specs out at less than 20PTO HP and only 26 engine HP.
TractorData.com Kubota B265 tractor information

You're asking a lot for 26HP to move 4500# up that slope AND run a 6' mower and trying to maintain speed.

The general rule of thumb for brush cutters is 5hp per foot, or so I've read here on TBN many times(don't know if its true or not). A 6' brush cutter would require 30PTO HP if it is true. Don't know how that equates to finish mower.

Landpride lists your mower at up to 50HP, but lists no minimum HP requirement.
https://www.landpride.com/ari/attach/lp/public/specs/310-262s.pdf

Here's a link to an old thread by Island Tractor addressing HP and mower width. Good discussion.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/96404-72-finish-mower-21hp-tractor.html

Can you do another video, following the same path, using the same ranges, with the PTO off, so we can hear the engine/tranny strain without the mower running?

With all that said, I'm very surprised that when you switch from M to L that it doesn't just walk right up that hill. Really surprised that it was just as weak.

Maybe something's wrong with the machine. Maybe there's some obstruction in your HST that isn't allowing it to get full flow? Maybe a faulty filter or screen that's installed incorrectly or backwards or some idiot left a plastic sheet on, etc...?

I'd ask the dealer to take a look at your video and see what they think. And I'd ask if they have a 5' used mower that you can test-drive.

Good luck. I'd hope it's something mechanical that is an easy fix. It just doesn't sound right.

My little PT425 is all hydraulic and I'd expect noises like that on a slope with the finish mower running too, but by letting off the pedal like you did, it should have enough power to go up the hill slowly while maintains the PTO speed.

I'd lean towards your gut feeling and think something's not right, but again, that's not much HP to move that weight and keep that much mower spinning. The grass doesn't look long, either. Once it gets taller, you'll only be able to mow downhill, shut off the PTO, drive up, turn on the PTO again, etc...

Get the dealer involved.

Sorry for the ramble. Good luck and keep us updated. :thumbsup:

 

[Rock Crawler]

I actually wasn't cutting grass at all, I just moved the wheel yokes up an inch before making that video so that the blades are higher than the grass.

This video was only spinning the blades in the air over the grass, so let it be known that no grass was hurt during the production of this video

Your tractor specs out at less than 20PTO HP and only 26 engine HP.
TractorData.com Kubota B265 tractor information

You're asking a lot for 26HP to move 4500# up that slope AND run a 6' mower and trying to maintain speed.

The general rule of thumb for brush cutters is 5hp per foot, or so I've read here on TBN many times(don't know if its true or not). A 6' brush cutter would require 30PTO HP if it is true. Don't know how that equates to finish mower.

Landpride lists your mower at up to 50HP, but lists no minimum HP requirement.
https://www.landpride.com/ari/attach/lp/public/specs/310-262s.pdf

Here's a link to an old thread by Island Tractor addressing HP and mower width. Good discussion.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/96404-72-finish-mower-21hp-tractor.html

Can you do another video, following the same path, using the same ranges, with the PTO off, so we can hear the engine/tranny strain without the mower running?

With all that said, I'm very surprised that when you switch from M to L that it doesn't just walk right up that hill. Really surprised that it was just as weak.

Maybe something's wrong with the machine. Maybe there's some obstruction in your HST that isn't allowing it to get full flow? Maybe a faulty filter or screen that's installed incorrectly or backwards or some idiot left a plastic sheet on, etc...?

I'd ask the dealer to take a look at your video and see what they think. And I'd ask if they have a 5' used mower that you can test-drive.

Good luck. I'd hope it's something mechanical that is an easy fix. It just doesn't sound right.

My little PT425 is all hydraulic and I'd expect noises like that on a slope with the finish mower running too, but by letting off the pedal like you did, it should have enough power to go up the hill slowly while maintains the PTO speed.

I'd lean towards your gut feeling and think something's not right, but again, that's not much HP to move that weight and keep that much mower spinning. The grass doesn't look long, either. Once it gets taller, you'll only be able to mow downhill, shut off the PTO, drive up, turn on the PTO again, etc...

Get the dealer involved.

Sorry for the ramble. Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[SDT]

You're expecting too much.

Your tractor is only 19.5 PTO HP. A 6' mower is too much for 20 HP in many conditions regardless of slope.

Your mower alone weighs about 720 Lbs. The FEL weighs several hundred Lbs. The tractor alone weighs about 1,790 Lbs., and I'm bettin' that you have about 450 Lbs. of rim guard in the rear tires.

Changing to a 60" mower will make little difference.

You need more HP.

Alternatively, get a 60" MMM and take the FEL off. Even then, you are going to be HP limited once the grass starts growing.

SDT

 

[SDT]

I failed to notice the BH frame, so add another 200+ Lbs.

FWIW, I bought a new B3350HSD two days ago.

I considered a MMM as one of my two implements in order to get the additional incentive but decided against it once looking carefully at both the 60" and 72" versions. Currently, I'm mowing my grass with a 1994 B1750HST and 60" terrain following (gage wheels) MMM. This is an absolutely GREAT mower (I would not own a suspended deck). Rather, I bought the FEL and QH10 quick hitch, which I traded back in because I do not use quick hitches.

Though the lineage of my 1994 deck can be seen in both the 60" and, more so, the 72" current model MMMs, they have been cost reduced so many times that I no longer like them. Perhaps, I'm spoiled.

That said, I preferred the 60" to the 72" but I don't think that you can use either with the BH frame installed.

You need more CID and HP.

SDT

 

[Rock Crawler]

SDT,

In post #12 I broke down the approximate weights. I'm aware that it's a heavy package

You can not use a MMM with the wheels and tires that I have, or... Not without doing some custom work to the mower.

 

[JWR]

Ok, I read all the posts. Of course I have opinions.

1) Universally agreed, not enough tractor for what you are trying to do.

2) I had a 48 horse JD4700 , a LP 2672 finish mower and a Deere MX6 hog. I can tell you, the 2672 was more of a load than the 6ft hog. Those heavier Landpride finish mowers are a load. I had plenty of tractor for either one and used them on a 40% slope regularly, somewhat similar to yours. But I would not want to do it with 26 less horsepower !

3) When you are doing your video not really cutting grass, just rotating blades, that should tell you something loud and strong -- what if you have heavy grass ? Dead in the water !
Just not enough tractor for the 6ft finish mower other than near level ground.

4) How new is that thing ? Looks VERY new. I think I would go none too slowly right back to the dealer and see what a deal he might make on a bigger machine. Keep in mind the dealer will get VERY NEARLY as much out of your low hours machine as he had in it in the first place.

5) If you don't want to trade upward to a bigger machine, I disagree with the others saying a smaller mower won't make much difference. For heavens sake go borrow one or take a test drive of it off a dealer and TRY the 60" mower on your lot ! I think it will make a big difference. With only 3 acres I'd not turn my nose up at a 5ft one either. Of course we'd all root for you trading up to a bigger machine but depending on your overall needs and dollars, going smaller with the mower may make a lot of sense.

I know this comment will start a bigger war on HST vs std trans, but I have 2 B2150 Kubotas. One has a 60" belly mower that is indestructible and the other (used in a far different location) has a 5ft Bush Hog mounted on it. Either of those will climb any slope you have, way greater than 16 degrees, without ever bogging down in the slightest. And that's cutting fairly heavy grass, sometimes light brush. Two reasons: the B2150's are gear transmissions, not HST. And 2ndly they are 4 cylinder (though only rated at 24 engine hp.) I would consider a 6ft deck on either of them to be too much.

 

[Jchonline]

Yes, I'm guessing....
1900 lb bare tractor
200 lb backhoe subframe
750 lb rim guard
800 lb loader
100 lb for the bigger wheels and tires.
750 lb mower
7% gear reduction loss, not a huge amount, but I'm sure it plays a part.
The FDR2572 has a much larger gear box, I'm sure it also eats more power to spin compared to the standard/lower HP rated 72" Land Pride deck.

4,500 lbs give or take as it is seen in the video.

I actually watched the video last night, didn't know you had a post here as well!
Also operator weight. It adds up quickly. Sometimes 1 tractor to rule them all just doesnt work. I agree you should demo anything else on your property before you consider a trade or purchase. You do have a beautiful tractor! I have been looking at a B2650 myself. I dont need it for much PTO work, but I am at high altitude. It sounds like you have the perfect setup for everything but heavy PTO work. May I am so sorry. It is really tough to predict where something isn't going to work for your particular need. I have a bunch of property in the mountains and remain very scared about a purchase due to these types of unknowns. I spent 3 hours walking the place this last weekend, trying to think of what type of machine is best suited to all of the scenarios. It isn't easy.

Here are my brainstorming thoughts:

1. Sell/trade the mower, use the garden tractor.
2. Push dealer to take mower back if you can use the 5' and it runs fine
3. You could try the homeowner version, but it has the same minimum HP requirements as this one.
4. Have dealer ensure there is nothing wrong with the tractor. It seems fine to me in the video, but I dont have much experience with newer tractors (built in the past 30 years lol).
5. Look at an L, Grand L, or an MX. Just make sure the other tractor can fit your BH77 and you can keep it. If you do this definitely demo it on your property before buying.
6. Only mow downhill! Ok sorry I could not resist.

Very best of luck!

 

[beckmurph]

Your hst peddle is your "gear shift". Trucks and automobiles have to reduce gears to maintain speed on a steep incline.

Your b2650 has to reduce gears to maintain "power".

The larger tires on your tractor have increased the final drive by 7% by your estimate.

I think you will be okay, but mid range or hst to the floor in low range isn't going to work.

Your cutting 72" on each pass. You may cut slower, but you wont make as many passes.