Kubota Super UDT and filters.

[Trillium Farm]

Kubota and every other equipment manufacturer has a vested interest in providing filters and fluids of a quality that helps optimize and lengthen the performance of their branded equipment so that equipment gains public favor and widespread approval. Quality is more important than price point.
Aftermarket filter and fluid retailers have a vested interest in market share for their products, the big picture for them is the fluids and filters themselves, not the equipment those fluids and filters protect. The benchmark of aftermarket filters is the price point and not failing or causing an acute equipment failure while they are in use.

Plus 100 absolutely right!

 

[rScotty]

Kubota and every other equipment manufacturer has a vested interest in providing filters and fluids of a quality that helps optimize and lengthen the performance of their branded equipment so that equipment gains public favor and widespread approval. Quality is more important than price point.
Aftermarket filter and fluid retailers have a vested interest in market share for their products, the big picture for them is the fluids and filters themselves, not the equipment those fluids and filters protect. The benchmark of aftermarket filters is the price point and not failing or causing an acute equipment failure while they are in use.

That certainly sounds very nice, but it also sounds like an optimistic opinion rather than having any factual basis.
rScotty

 

[ovrszd]

That certainly sounds very nice, but it also sounds like an optomistic opinion rather than having any factual basis.
rScotty

Let's hear your optimistic opinion about the subject?

 

[rScotty]

Let's hear your optimistic opinion about the subject?

I'm generally optimistic. Yes, I know I'm both old and old-fashioned in the way I form opinions. But I tend to prefer to go with facts.
I just feel more comfortable making a judgement based on evidence rather than on my own emotional bias.
There are lots who feel the other way around, and that's OK with me.
It just means that my own opinion is more likely to be based on what I know rather than what I believe.

The downside to preferring facts to bias is there are a lot of times where I have to say, "I just don't know much about that".
Filters and oils are that way for me. Being a kind of scientific guy, I sure do wish I knew how they really are made..... but the truth is I have no knowledge or evidence of how they are actually made.

If you do, I'll listen.....
rScotty

 

[ovrszd]

I'm generally optimistic. Yes, I know I'm both old and old-fashioned in the way I form opinions. But I tend to prefer to go with facts.
I just feel more comfortable making a judgement based on evidence rather than on my own emotional bias.
There are lots who feel the other way around, and that's OK with me.
It just means that my own opinion is more likely to be based on what I know rather than what I believe.

The downside to preferring facts to bias is there are a lot of times where I have to say, "I just don't know much about that".
Filters and oils are that way for me. Being a kind of scientific guy, I sure do wish I knew how they really are made..... but the truth is I have no knowledge or evidence of how they are actually made.

If you do, I'll listen.....
rScotty

Which parts of Rick's narrative do you not agree with?

As for facts about it, I guess we could read the manufacturer's writings about their goals? Probably follow very closely to what Rick said.

 

[Trillium Farm]

I'm generally optimistic. Yes, I know I'm both old and old-fashioned in the way I form opinions. But I tend to prefer to go with facts.
I just feel more comfortable making a judgement based on evidence rather than on my own emotional bias.
There are lots who feel the other way around, and that's OK with me.
It just means that my own opinion is more likely to be based on what I know rather than what I believe.

The downside to preferring facts to bias is there are a lot of times where I have to say, "I just don't know much about that".
Filters and oils are that way for me. Being a kind of scientific guy, I sure do wish I knew how they really are made..... but the truth is I have no knowledge or evidence of how they are actually made.

If you do, I'll listen.....
rScotty

Even if what you call facts may be lacking, one could infer with common sense that no company would sabotage itself by using an inferior filter that could damage a product THEY make and thereby cast a pall on the whole product. Even an upstart company ought to have more sense than that let alone Kubota.

 

[RickB]

I have no hard facts to support my contention that manufacturers intend their support products to cast their equipment offerings in the best possible light. To suggest they might not have that goal opens the door to a level of absurdity that I refuse to address.

I also have no facts to support the theory that retailers of aftermarket fluids and filters strive to sell the highest volume possible by limiting the problems their offerings cause in the marketplace while remaining price competitive. It occurs to me that if those goals were not present in those companies business models they probably should be.

But in my folly of posting thoughts without an appendix of supporting references I will sleep soundly tonight, as I did last night. Most of those who whine about facts seldom find and offer any on their own. The entire narrative concerning fluids and filters is built around opinions. Anyone who cares about vehicle and power equipment maintenance and has internet access should know that.

 

[fried1765]

I have no hard facts to support my contention that manufacturers intend their support products to cast their equipment offerings in the best possible light. To suggest they might not have that goal opens the door to a level of absurdity that I refuse to address.

I also have no facts to support the theory that retailers of aftermarket fluids and filters strive to sell the highest volume possible by limiting the problems their offerings cause in the marketplace while remaining price competitive. It occurs to me that if those goals were not present in those companies business models they probably should be.

But in my folly of posting thoughts without an appendix of supporting references I will sleep soundly tonight, as I did last night. Most of those who whine about facts seldom find and offer any on their own. The entire narrative concerning fluids and filters is built around opinions. Anyone who cares about vehicle and power equipment maintenance and has internet access should know that.

"The entire narrative concerning fluids and filters is built around opinions"

YUP !!!!!!

 

[number two]

5 gallon pail of Super UDT2 today at the dealer $89.09 USD-spring sale.

 

[PsRumors]

5 gallon pail of Super UDT2 today at the dealer $89.09 USD-spring sale.

That's a reasonable price

 

[PsRumors]

At work we blow mulch for erosion control. We use Vemeer bale processors powered by John Deere tractors (6190 & 7430). We also have a Kubota M6-141 we use for a shuttle tractor and a Kubota M7060 for backup, yard work and other work. We've had several tractors before these.

With that said, we have never used Kubota or Deere fluids. We keep a 55 gallon drum of Citgo Transguard at the shop but have put various, and cheap, "premium" trans & hydraulic fluid in the tractors when we've been out in the field and the need arises.

We have never had a trans or hydraulic break down on any tractor. The most hours any one tractor has accumulated is about 7k hours and current tractors have 3 to 4 thousand hours. We do use either factory filters or Napa Gold

For my L45, I used SUDT2

 

[rScotty]

Our JD310SG works its hydraulic fluid pretty hard. It's a 90HP turbo diesel with a powershifting torque converter transmission and a 36 gpm main hydraulic pump for the backhoe & loader.
JD's recommendation for a a trans/hydraulic fluid is to simply use 24 gallons (yikes!) of their standard multiweight motor oil.
rScotty

 

[RickB]

First generation CaseIH Magnum tractors used right at a barrel of HyTran.

 

[Dataway]

I was recently playing with a filter cutter I made ... cut open a used New Holland engine oil filter, and a Kubota Hydro filter that were waiting to be recycled.

I was surprised to find that the Kubota filter was not what I would call a high quality piece of work. Cheesy spring plate bypass spring, no exterior screen on the filter media .. which appeared to be paper one step above a Walmart fram filter. The NH engine oil filter was very robust, real spring for the bypass, screens on inside and outside of the filter media, mounting plate twice as thick as the Kubota part, nice thick crimped on end caps filter cage. Kubota part was not the worst filter I've ever seen, but far from being a quality industrial part. This particular unit had the filter media collapsed ... most likely from me not giving it enough warm up time in sub-zero temps.

 

[sixdogs]

Kubota and every other equipment manufacturer has a vested interest in providing filters and fluids of a quality that helps optimize and lengthen the performance of their branded equipment so that equipment gains public favor and widespread approval. Quality is more important than price point.
Aftermarket filter and fluid retailers have a vested interest in market share for their products, the big picture for them is the fluids and filters themselves, not the equipment those fluids and filters protect. The benchmark of aftermarket filters is the price point and not failing or causing an acute equipment failure while they are in use.

I absolutely agree with this and have done price comparisons and cut filters apart for decades. OEM, especially the Kubota and Deere I'm familiar with, were much better made and in most crease cheaper than the alternatives. The exceptions would be odd duck, limited proprietary use filters where there was no competition for the OEM company.

Now, for a truck filter a lot of the aftermarket oil filters would likely be OK and the higher end ones I cut apart over the years were respectable. Fleetguard comes to mind as honorable but there were others. Even so, I use Toyota oil filters in my Tundra and they are the least expensive. I use Purolater air filters if I can get them and OEM if I can't. Cabin filters are also Puro.

Equipment makers likely sell more oil filters than anything else and know everyone knows the price and will switch in a moment. So, they price them right, keep equipment in good shape and let the doubters know or think other parts are as fairly priced. It's another story but OEM paints are usually top shelf and bargain priced as well, especially for the quality they are.

 

[fried1765]

I was recently playing with a filter cutter I made ... cut open a used New Holland engine oil filter, and a Kubota Hydro filter that were waiting to be recycled.

I was surprised to find that the Kubota filter was not what I would call a high quality piece of work. Cheesy spring plate bypass spring, no exterior screen on the filter media .. which appeared to be paper one step above a Walmart fram filter. The NH engine oil filter was very robust, real spring for the bypass, screens on inside and outside of the filter media, mounting plate twice as thick as the Kubota part, nice thick crimped on end caps filter cage. Kubota part was not the worst filter I've ever seen, but far from being a quality industrial part. This particular unit had the filter media collapsed ... most likely from me not giving it enough warm up time in sub-zero temps.

So....is it logical to assume that a similar comparison might also be made between Super UDT2, and non Kubota hydraulic oils, with the same or similar spec.?
I have long suspected that suggesting/requiring Kubota Super UDT2, and particularly for an out of warranty Kubota, may just be Kubota and dealer price gouging/brain washing/fear mongering.

 

[Dataway]

These days I think it's hard to make many hard and fast conclusions. Kubota doesn't make oil, so someone makes it for them, the hard part is finding the exact same oil without "Kubota" written on it. May very well have a proprietary formula only made for Kubota. OEMs are funny, one "genuine" part might be crap, their other "genuine" parts may be very high quality ... gotta take it on a case by case basis.j

Most tractor guys spend enough seat time that they are a pretty good judge of what works in their particular machine. My BX2200 seems pretty picky about hydraulic fluid, my New Holland (manual) will take just about anything ( a bit too thick and it doesn't want to engage the rear PTO though)

Sixdogs .... I found the same thing with the paints, the OEM products are considerably more durable and a better finish than run of the mill equivalents.

 

[sixdogs]

So....is it logical to assume that a similar comparison might also be made between Super UDT2, and non Kubota hydraulic oils, with the same or similar spec.?
I have long suspected that suggesting/requiring Kubota Super UDT2, and particularly for an out of warranty Kubota, may just be Kubota and dealer price gouging/brain washing/fear mongering.

I did a thread on this and have seen others but my hydro B7800 Kubota makes less noise and shifts better with SUDT2. I actually dumped the day-old Brand X to go back to SUDT2.

Same thing with the Hydro shuttle Kubota M7040. It just works better, warms up faster and shifts better. Beats me.

 

[ovrszd]

I did a thread on this and have seen others but my hydro B7800 Kubota makes less noise and shifts better with SUDT2. I actually dumped the day-old Brand X to go back to SUDT2.

Same thing with the Hydro shuttle Kubota M7040. It just works better, warms up faster and shifts better. Beats me.

As does my M9540.