Deerlope
Veteran Member
Can an L-4330 be converted to use injectors from an L- 4630? Both have the same engine displacement. Just that the L-4630 has 3 more HP and runs 100 RPM's high to create the higher HP.
L 4330 make over
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CT_Tree_Guy
Platinum Member
Fred - As tempting as that sounds, I wouldn't recommend doing it. This thread Engine torque (power) specs for Grand L's talks about (among other things) the fact that the 4630 puts out the exact same amount of net torque that the 4330 does. Same displacement as you said, same stroke, just 3 more hp at 100 higher rpm. You're bound to use more fuel, and I don't know if the 3 extra HP without any additional torque are really going to do much for you. Maybe in certain applications, but overall I just have a feeling it's not going to be worth it.
In that thread, I went as far as to say that I'm a little disappointed that Kubota even bothered to offer a 46 HP engine in the Grand L line, if it was just the 43 HP engine tweaked to give 3 more HP.
Seems to me that if they went to the trouble of decreasing the bore to from 3.4 inches 3.3 on the L3130 to lower its HP (and torque), they could have increased the stroke from 3.6 to 3.8 on the 4630, or just had a gap in their product line. It would have required a different crankshaft if I'm thinking correctly, as opposed to just smaller pistons as in the case of the 3130, but it might have been a nice touch.
Hope this helps, and also hope I know what I'm talking about,
John D.
In that thread, I went as far as to say that I'm a little disappointed that Kubota even bothered to offer a 46 HP engine in the Grand L line, if it was just the 43 HP engine tweaked to give 3 more HP.
Seems to me that if they went to the trouble of decreasing the bore to from 3.4 inches 3.3 on the L3130 to lower its HP (and torque), they could have increased the stroke from 3.6 to 3.8 on the 4630, or just had a gap in their product line. It would have required a different crankshaft if I'm thinking correctly, as opposed to just smaller pistons as in the case of the 3130, but it might have been a nice touch.
Hope this helps, and also hope I know what I'm talking about,
John D.
I know you are right. I ask the question because I am thinking of trading up to a 4 cyl. Not sure if I will go with the L 4330 or an "M" seris. 3cyls just can't not cut running the 5" chipper. I got the feed rate on the chipper as slow as it will go and it pulls the 3830 down real quick and then I have a plugged shoot. Thanks for you input.
CT_Tree_Guy
Platinum Member
Shorthand: I can see you in a 5030 or maybe an M6800, maybe bigger. No use getting a 4330, there's not a big enough increase in HP. As said, forget the 4630. The 5030 is a moose; I think the hydro's PTO power is around 42 HP. The M8200 (turbo) gets you the locking front diff, and the 9000 gets you the intercooler. They're redoing the M line and I'm not familiar with the new models, maybe you can't even get the 6800/8200/9000. Sounds like you want at least 50 hp though, maybe more. So much goes into the decision. You would know better than I.
Anyway, good luck with it, John D.
Anyway, good luck with it, John D.
slowzuki
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I think you could just turn up the fueling screw a bit on the 4330. Everyone seems so against the 4630 but it was there first as the mack daddy L series motor in the L4610.
Deerlope, you can use Cat 1 equipment on cat 2 hitches, we do it all the time, in fact our only Cat 2 piece is a snowblower with the double sided pins. And no we don't use the silly bushings.
The farmer neighbour has done this for 30 years without any drawback. Plus it is a lot easier to hook up equipment.
Deerlope, you can use Cat 1 equipment on cat 2 hitches, we do it all the time, in fact our only Cat 2 piece is a snowblower with the double sided pins. And no we don't use the silly bushings.
The farmer neighbour has done this for 30 years without any drawback. Plus it is a lot easier to hook up equipment.
CT_Tree_Guy
Platinum Member
<font color="blue"> Everyone seems so against the 4630 but it was there first as the mack daddy L series motor in the L4610.
</font>
Ken - I'm not saying that the L4630 is a "bad" tractor, or that there's anything "wrong" with the engine per se. If one fell out of the sky and was studied on its own merits by engineers and tractor experts, and none of the other Grand L's existed, they would probably conclude that's it's a very nice machine. It's just that when compared to the 4330 (same torque, $2,000 less) and the 5030 (4.0" stroke, a lot more torque), it just doesn't seem to be a very good choice among the Grand L's.
Still a better tractor than I could build, just not a "thumbs up" for me.
</font>
Ken - I'm not saying that the L4630 is a "bad" tractor, or that there's anything "wrong" with the engine per se. If one fell out of the sky and was studied on its own merits by engineers and tractor experts, and none of the other Grand L's existed, they would probably conclude that's it's a very nice machine. It's just that when compared to the 4330 (same torque, $2,000 less) and the 5030 (4.0" stroke, a lot more torque), it just doesn't seem to be a very good choice among the Grand L's.
Still a better tractor than I could build, just not a "thumbs up" for me.
_RaT_
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<font color="blue"> 3cyls just can't not cut running the 5" chipper. </font>
That depends on the 3 cylinder engine. My International 454 would have chipped your chipper. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
My gut feeling is that the L4330 or L4630 would only perform marginally better. I just rented a Dasko 9" chipper with a 25HP Kohler twin cylinder gas engine with hydraulic feed. The blades were dull yet I still managed to chip 4" and 5" limbs routinely. I'm guessing your chipper has issues besides having an underpowered diesel driving it.
That depends on the 3 cylinder engine. My International 454 would have chipped your chipper. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
My gut feeling is that the L4330 or L4630 would only perform marginally better. I just rented a Dasko 9" chipper with a 25HP Kohler twin cylinder gas engine with hydraulic feed. The blades were dull yet I still managed to chip 4" and 5" limbs routinely. I'm guessing your chipper has issues besides having an underpowered diesel driving it.
Could be that I have a bad chipper. Its a Bearcat 5" hyd feed, knives are sharp , avil plate is set where it is supposed to be, And it has probably less than 100 hrs on it. The chips come out about 3/4 to 1" size. Who really knows any how this thread ain't about chippers.
_RaT_
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Sounds like you understand your chipper well. Can you slow the rate of feed? The thread may not be about chippers, but it is about power, something that chippers need plenty of. Good Luck...
slowzuki
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Don't notice it over the other slop in the 3 point. The undersized equip. we run: Bushhog, 2 furrow plow, haying rake, haying tedder, log splitter, drawbar, spinner spreader, post hole digger.... hmm, oh and a tooth harrow.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Wouldn't the attachment slop around a lot with out bushing? )</font>
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Wouldn't the attachment slop around a lot with out bushing? )</font>
_RaT_
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The Dasko had an auto feed feature. It worked off RPM. As soon as the RPM of the engine falls below a determined point, it stops the feed. You still have control on reversing the feed as well. A little electronics and an electric solenoid hydraulic valve is all it was.
CT_Tree_Guy
Platinum Member
Deerlope -
I think RaT just solved your problem. When he switched me from my "tractor hat" to my "tree-guy" hat it all became obvious.
I have an 18" capacity Vermeer 1800 chipper with a 115 HP 4-cylinder Perkins turbo diesel engine that can be brought to its knees very easily when it gets into the big stuff. It has the type of auto-feed system that Rat refers to as having been on the Dasko (I think it was probably a Dosko) chipper that he rented. On my Vermeer, a hydraulic valve will stop the supply of hydr. oil to the feed rollers when the alternator voltage drops below a certain level (caused by the slowing of the engine as it tries to cope with "too big" a load). As the engine speed picks back up, the voltage goes back up, and hydr. flow to the feed rollers is restored. This is (IMHO) a must-have on any chipper that you can get it on. (As an aside, the newer Vermeers use an optical pickup to monitor engine speed and is even more reliable. Mine works fine though).
I also have two smaller chippers, both Promark model 210's, rated for 6" but obviously happier with smaller than that. One is powered by a 1-cyl 16 HP B&S gas engine, the other by a 2-cyl Kohler 18 HP gas engine. They pack quite a punch for their size, an amazing punch actually. In fact, back in the day, I once cleared a building lot with the 16 HP one and it raised more than one eyebrow with its spunk. They chew up pine and maple branches extremely well, as they are not self-feeding and like the straighter material like that. Twisty stuff like oak and apple is a major pain. But they do kick some butt, you just have to be careful how big/long a piece you feed them so as not to gag them.
That said: I have always wanted to put somethink like a 25 HP gas engine, or 20-ish HP diesel engine on them. With that additional power, they would gain a tremendous amount of chipping power, and give an even better accounting of themselves.
That brings me to my main point. You have 32 diesel HP at your PTO. PLENTY of power I would think to do some fairly serious chipping. The problem, as RaT pointed out, seems to be the lack of an auto-feed. Without the auto-feed, my 18" chipper would get plugged up 10 times a day, or require constant vigilance by whoever is closest to the safety bar that manually controls the direction that the feed rollers turn. Push on the bar, and the rollers reverse. Even WITH the auto-feed, we often "feather" big pieces into the cutters so as to avoid the lag time that the engine requires to get back up to speed after the auto-feed has kicked in.
Forget the 6800, or the injector tweaks. If you put the auto-feed on that I am glad to see is an option, your chipping experience will be a much more satisfactory one, I am quite sure of it. Also, I know you said the knives are sharp, but they need to be REALLY sharp. Just a little dullness has a geometric effect on the chipping ability of any chipper. I'd urge you to get at least one more set of knives so the other set can be off getting sharpened and you can still use your chipper.
Good luck, John D.
I think RaT just solved your problem. When he switched me from my "tractor hat" to my "tree-guy" hat it all became obvious.
I have an 18" capacity Vermeer 1800 chipper with a 115 HP 4-cylinder Perkins turbo diesel engine that can be brought to its knees very easily when it gets into the big stuff. It has the type of auto-feed system that Rat refers to as having been on the Dasko (I think it was probably a Dosko) chipper that he rented. On my Vermeer, a hydraulic valve will stop the supply of hydr. oil to the feed rollers when the alternator voltage drops below a certain level (caused by the slowing of the engine as it tries to cope with "too big" a load). As the engine speed picks back up, the voltage goes back up, and hydr. flow to the feed rollers is restored. This is (IMHO) a must-have on any chipper that you can get it on. (As an aside, the newer Vermeers use an optical pickup to monitor engine speed and is even more reliable. Mine works fine though).
I also have two smaller chippers, both Promark model 210's, rated for 6" but obviously happier with smaller than that. One is powered by a 1-cyl 16 HP B&S gas engine, the other by a 2-cyl Kohler 18 HP gas engine. They pack quite a punch for their size, an amazing punch actually. In fact, back in the day, I once cleared a building lot with the 16 HP one and it raised more than one eyebrow with its spunk. They chew up pine and maple branches extremely well, as they are not self-feeding and like the straighter material like that. Twisty stuff like oak and apple is a major pain. But they do kick some butt, you just have to be careful how big/long a piece you feed them so as not to gag them.
That said: I have always wanted to put somethink like a 25 HP gas engine, or 20-ish HP diesel engine on them. With that additional power, they would gain a tremendous amount of chipping power, and give an even better accounting of themselves.
That brings me to my main point. You have 32 diesel HP at your PTO. PLENTY of power I would think to do some fairly serious chipping. The problem, as RaT pointed out, seems to be the lack of an auto-feed. Without the auto-feed, my 18" chipper would get plugged up 10 times a day, or require constant vigilance by whoever is closest to the safety bar that manually controls the direction that the feed rollers turn. Push on the bar, and the rollers reverse. Even WITH the auto-feed, we often "feather" big pieces into the cutters so as to avoid the lag time that the engine requires to get back up to speed after the auto-feed has kicked in.
Forget the 6800, or the injector tweaks. If you put the auto-feed on that I am glad to see is an option, your chipping experience will be a much more satisfactory one, I am quite sure of it. Also, I know you said the knives are sharp, but they need to be REALLY sharp. Just a little dullness has a geometric effect on the chipping ability of any chipper. I'd urge you to get at least one more set of knives so the other set can be off getting sharpened and you can still use your chipper.
Good luck, John D.
John, I just got off Bearcat's web site and have the info on the item that will give me the type of controller that I need. An electronic feed sensor.Going to call tomorrow and see what the cost will be. The knives in this chipper are reversable. But before the next use they will be sharpened. I had it stored for the winter but I had a 10dia pine go down so I got it out. Now its stored again. I am sure that the sensor will cost less that a L4330or 5030. Thanks everyone for all your help, input and advice.
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