L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

[8226hamer]

So neither you nor Kubota believe the new cam in the L2800 solves your problem and the only real solution is an independant PTO? I've been researching tractors for quite a while now and was convinced the L3400HST would be the perfect tractor for me. I'd like to thank you for your post. The L3400 would have been a mistake. I hope Kubota steps up to the plate and takes care of you & everyone else that dished out their hard earned money on these "economy" tractors.

If you are talking about the new one way cams that Kubota is using now, the impression I'm getting is that the new one way PTO locking cams cannot be installed on the tractors that uses the old style two way cams. And yes, I was told by Kubota that I would be better off, with my type of application, with the better designed independent PTO system that the B3030 has. I was told that this system that the L2800-3400 incorperates was intended to be used with a finish mower, bushog type of application. I thought is was funny that in the L2800-3400 information booklet Kubota puts out that it list a roto tiller as an accessory option.

If you are refering to the updated two way cams that were redesigned and installed in my tractor twice now, I have no doubt these will fail again, unless maybe I never use my roto tiller again

 

[Shimon]

What about switching from an HST L2800/L3400 to a gear driven model? I know it's a personal preference but I think it's still an option. Maybe it's because I haven't driven an HST before (didn't even want to try one at the dealer) so I don't know what I'm missing but I seem to get along fine with a clutch and gearshift. I pick a gear and stick with it. When I mow with the brush hog I'm in 4-low around the fence line and once that's done I'm in 1 or 2-hi (depending on my mood) so I mow for a couple of hours without ever switching gears or clutching. Same would go for tilling. I guess for loader work HST would have an advantage but again I get along fine. Not trying to tell people gear is better than HST, just want to say that it is an option (and it's cheaper!). Said my piece.

 

[RayMunising]

If you are talking about the new one way cams that Kubota is using now, the impression I'm getting is that the new one way PTO locking cams cannot be installed on the tractors that uses the old style two way cams. And yes, I was told by Kubota that I would be better off, with my type of application, with the better designed independent PTO system that the B3030 has. I was told that this system that the L2800-3400 incorperates was intended to be used with a finish mower, bushog type of application. I thought is was funny that in the L2800-3400 information booklet Kubota puts out that it list a roto tiller as an accessory option.

If you are refering to the updated two way cams that were redesigned and installed in my tractor twice now, I have no doubt these will fail again, unless maybe I never use my roto tiller again

I was referring to trading your L2800 that has the 2 way cams for a new L2800 with the new one way cams. If Kubota thinks this new one way cam will solve the problem I don't see why they are not recommending a L2800 for new L2800 trade rather than an L2800 for B3030 trade.

As far as gears vs HST the problem I have with going with gears is there is no creeper gear option on the L3400 and my intended purpose is blowing snow. I plan on moving to Munising Michigan which is right in between the two snowiest cities in the country - Marquette and Sault Saint Marie Michigan. I did a lot of research and thought the perfect setup would be a L3400 with a commercial 5 foot wide Erskine front mount blower and a cab. I thought that would be a very good combination of power, strength and weight at a "reasonable" price. Having read a lot (mostly on TBN) I'm convinced HST is the best choice for blowing snow. Since this is my sole purpose of buying this tractor (though I'm sure I'll find other uses for it) and the blower is a PTO driven implement and I'll use it daily for 5-6 months of the year to blow out my 1/4 mile long driveway and I want it to last me 20+ years I don't think the L3400 is the best choice any more. I need something I can count.

One last thing and I'll shut up ... Any tractor (that's a real tractor) should be built to do work. That is what a tractor is for. The L2800 and L3400 certainly LOOK like tractors but there's a whole lot more to being a tractor than looks! "Economy" should NOT imply that a TRACTOR is poorly designed or built. They aren't exactly giving away these "economy" tractors! "Economy" can and should mean that there is some fancy dodads missing but the fundamental nature of a tractor being a tractor implies to me that it is built to do WORK! If they aren't going to build tractors strong enough to stand up to the day in day out work that tractors are suppose to be able to do than they are not a company I want to do business with. I didn't think these tractors are toys and if they are telling you the PTO they built for the L2800 isn't designed to handle a tiller than I'd say they have a problem.

 

[8226hamer]

I was referring to trading your L2800 that has the 2 way cams for a new L2800 with the new one way cams. If Kubota thinks this new one way cam will solve the problem I don't see why they are not recommending a L2800 for new L2800 trade rather than an L2800 for B3030 trade.

As far as gears vs HST the problem I have with going with gears is there is no creeper gear option on the L3400 and my intended purpose is blowing snow. I plan on moving to Munising Michigan which is right in between the two snowiest cities in the country - Marquette and Sault Saint Marie Michigan. I did a lot of research and thought the perfect setup would be a L3400 with a commercial 5 foot wide Erskine front mount blower and a cab. I thought that would be a very good combination of power, strength and weight at a "reasonable" price. Having read a lot (mostly on TBN) I'm convinced HST is the best choice for blowing snow. Since this is my sole purpose of buying this tractor (though I'm sure I'll find other uses for it) and the blower is a PTO driven implement and I'll use it daily for 5-6 months of the year to blow out my 1/4 mile long driveway and I want it to last me 20+ years I don't think the L3400 is the best choice any more. I need something I can count.

One last thing and I'll shut up ... Any tractor (that's a real tractor) should be built to do work. That is what a tractor is for. The L2800 and L3400 certainly LOOK like tractors but there's a whole lot more to being a tractor than looks! "Economy" should NOT imply that a TRACTOR is poorly designed or built. They aren't exactly giving away these "economy" tractors! "Economy" can and should mean that there is some fancy dodads missing but the fundamental nature of a tractor being a tractor implies to me that it is built to do WORK! If they aren't going to build tractors strong enough to stand up to the day in day out work that tractors are suppose to be able to do than they are not a company I want to do business with. I didn't think these tractors are toys and if they are telling you the PTO they built for the L2800 isn't designed to handle a tiller than I'd say they have a problem.

I agree with everything you posted. When I got my L2800 I heard the salesman mention Economy tractor. I ask what he meant by it, He said it was built without all the bells and whistles and not as fancy as the Grand L series tractors. The L2800 didn't have tilt steering, telescoping 3 point hitch arms and stabilizers, delux seat etc.. It was your basic work tractor without the comforts that the Grand L series have. He forgot to mention the PTO was inferior and the jerking 3 point lift it had. I could skimp on comforts to save some money, but I would never skimp on reliability to save money. I didn't realize something as important as the PTO was something Kubota would cut corners on to make the tractor a little cheaper. I honestly thought if it had a Kubota sticker planted on the hood, economy or not, you would be getting a tractor that you could depend on without any problems.

My first Kubota I owned was a B-20 TLB. I bought it used with 600 hours on it and it had no fancy features, bells or whistles, but the one thing it did have was an independent PTO system and 2500 hours later when I traded it for my B2910 the PTO never had failed and was still working perfect, as was the 2910's independent PTO system.

Ray Munising, as far as me getting a gear driven transmission tractor, it wouldn't work out for me using it to put in lawns with. The type of work I do is usualy in subdivisions and the yards are very small and all the clutching that I would have to do from starting and stopping and reversing every 30 feet would be hard to take, plus it would take alot longer to put the lawn in. When I install a lawn I till it first, then put my pulverizer and level and prep it for seed, or sod. I work in very tight areas and they are building homes on top of each other in most of the subs I work in and nothing against the gear driven transmission, but a HST transmission is the only way to go.

 

[emmy71]

One last thing and I'll shut up ... Any tractor (that's a real tractor) should be built to do work. That is what a tractor is for. The L2800 and L3400 certainly LOOK like tractors but there's a whole lot more to being a tractor than looks! "Economy" should NOT imply that a TRACTOR is poorly designed or built. They aren't exactly giving away these "economy" tractors! "Economy" can and should mean that there is some fancy dodads missing but the fundamental nature of a tractor being a tractor implies to me that it is built to do WORK! If they aren't going to build tractors strong enough to stand up to the day in day out work that tractors are suppose to be able to do than they are not a company I want to do business with. I didn't think these tractors are toys and if they are telling you the PTO they built for the L2800 isn't designed to handle a tiller than I'd say they have a problem.

That paragraph sums up what I was thinking today. When I saw the L3400 in person for the first time, I knew that it was the right tractor for me because of the size. I did not know or think that it was an "economy" tractor and it certainly isn't priced like one in my opinion. I bought it because it fit my needs of being powerful, compact, and easily towable. My L3400 has fit my needs perfectly and I hope it remains reliable.

8226hamer, I was also thinking about your situation. I did some searching on this forum and also on the internet and could not find any other L2800 pto failures. If I missed them, please forgive me. I found some references to pto's not disengaging due to cable problems and of course the ratcheting sound. I looked back at the pictures you posted of the damaged cams and came to a conclusion. Now everyone keep in mind I am not a mechanic or an engineer so if I post something totally off the wall please don't bash me too bad. I assume the pto sysem on your L2800 works by some force (spring, etc.) pushing the cams together by sliding one along a shaft with a fork or something similar when the pto lever is engaged. From looking at the pictures you posted I see no reason the cams will not mate together even with the damage on them unless something is not allowing them to fully engage. If some defect is allowing the cams to partially engage such as a poorly machined shaft, weak spring, etc., I believe this would lead to the type damage you are experiencing. If the defective parts remain in the system I see another failure in the future. Just one man's thoughts and opinions.

Terry

 

[8226hamer]

That paragraph sums up what I was thinking today. When I saw the L3400 in person for the first time, I knew that it was the right tractor for me because of the size. I did not know or think that it was an "economy" tractor and it certainly isn't priced like one in my opinion. I bought it because it fit my needs of being powerful, compact, and easily towable. My L3400 has fit my needs perfectly and I hope it remains reliable.

8226hamer, I was also thinking about your situation. I did some searching on this forum and also on the internet and could not find any other L2800 pto failures. If I missed them, please forgive me. I found some references to pto's not disengaging due to cable problems and of course the ratcheting sound. I looked back at the pictures you posted of the damaged cams and came to a conclusion. Now everyone keep in mind I am not a mechanic or an engineer so if I post something totally off the wall please don't bash me too bad. I assume the pto sysem on your L2800 works by some force (spring, etc.) pushing the cams together by sliding one along a shaft with a fork or something similar when the pto lever is engaged. From looking at the pictures you posted I see no reason the cams will not mate together even with the damage on them unless something is not allowing them to fully engage. If some defect is allowing the cams to partially engage such as a poorly machined shaft, weak spring, etc., I believe this would lead to the type damage you are experiencing. If the defective parts remain in the system I see another failure in the future. Just one man's thoughts and opinions.

Terry

Your thinking is very logicial and in fact there maybe other problem in my system that could be causing it to fail. I don't know for sure the reason yet for my PTO system not preforming as it should. Kubota doesn't either, as I have asked them several times why it has failed and their answer of the tractor being the wrong model of tractor for the type of application it is being used for, which the application I am using it for is tilling earth, is telling me somethings not up to par. Plus the fact that Kubota has updated these cams from the original designed smaller two way rotating locking cam to a larger version with larger locking lugs, but still a two way rotating cam system ,and had a service campaign that called for increasing the oil capacity to imerse the second edition larger lugged two way cams in oil, which at first were not being lubricated and extremley noisy when ratcheted against each other the non locking direction one minute and then required to lock back together and commit power to the outgoing PTO shaft the next time you engaged your PTO. Plus they then decided for (some reason, but by now I'm hoping you can see the reason) to completley changed from a two way rotating cams with a one way rotating cam system that your 2006 Kubota has. When I pondered the question to Kubota as to why they did away with the old two way locking cam PTO system, I was told it was an improved and better system, which I hope it is, and as I have found out with the old system, time and your type of application will tell.

And to be honest with you, I know of only one other person besides myself that has had their PTO system to suffer complete non working failure. I'm sure there are others, but how many who has, have talked about it over the internet, and also realize this, the tractors that Kubota had reasons for the redesigned cams and the oil capacity increase up- dates were earlier model L2800-3400 tractors with the first time offered HST transmission, and were produced I'm thinking, but could be wrong in 2005. Has your 2006 tractor had any updated cams installed or spent 6 weeks at your dealer shop for PTO repair work? I'm thinking it probably hasn't because Kubota was working the bugs out in 2005 and now hopefully your 2006 tractor won't have to. How many of these tractors are out there, I don't know. Will they have the same problems that I have had, I don't that either, but according to what I have learned from Kubota, they will if they use their tractors for a certain type of application, and that application is tilling earth.

 

[ccsial]

I don't know for sure the reason yet for my PTO system not preforming as it should. Kubota doesn't either, as I have asked them several times why it has failed and their answer of the tractor being the wrong model of tractor for the type of application it is being used for, which the application I am using it for is tilling earth, is telling me somethings not up to par.

I could be that the tiller is winding up (tension) a bit when it hits a tough area and then when it breaks loose it unwinds very quickly causing the cam to disengage slightly. (chatter) When the cams catch up again they slam together. This constant slamming would cause damage.

I too hope my PTO hangs in there with the mower and snow blower. My tiller is used with the 1910 which is pretty bullet proof. None of these new CUTs seem to be as rugged as the old ones. Too much competion makes things too cheap.

The L3400 had the PTO problem almost right after it was introduced. The factory was supposed to update all of them at the dealers lots with heavier cams. It is still not a great system. I'd love to see a manual for the 'new' clutch. I'd consider the gear version if it had a 12/12 like my 1910.

 

[HODAK]

.

8226hamer, I was also thinking about your situation. I did some searching on this forum and also on the internet and could not find any other L2800 pto failures. If I missed them, please forgive me. I found some references to pto's not disengaging due to cable problems and of course the ratcheting sound.

I was reminded on another thread that not all tractor owners read TBN............ so if you don't read about a problem on here, it does not mean there arent more out there. Keep the faith, hopefully KUBOTA will act on this to everyone's satisfaction.

 

[IslandTractor]

I was reminded on another thread that not all tractor owners read TBN............ so if you don't read about a problem on here, it does not mean there arent more out there. Keep the faith, hopefully KUBOTA will act on this to everyone's satisfaction.

When we noted the Kioti loader cracking problem, several TBN active dealers became involved and, I think, were quite influential in getting corporate headquarters to take notice and finally do something about it. There are certainly Kubota dealers who read TBN and many, like Neil Messick, are quite active. If I were a L2800 or L3400 owner I'd be trying to get some of the bigger TBN active dealers involved in this discussion. The dealers have to be brave to acknowledge problems but the better ones will.

 

[MDM]

This does not seem to be near the scale of Kioti's loader issue. We are talking about 1 major failure of possibly hundreds here on TBN. The more I think about it, I'm leaning to what Emmy71 says in that 8226Hamer's problem could be something else within the system that could be slightly out of spec. I'm guessing that Messicks is not taking your bait because he has not seen or heard of a problem such as 8226Hamer's. I talked with my dealer and he is not aware of any problems since Kubota updated to the larger cams. I'm not going to worry about mine anymore until I start to see more significant numbers of failures.