L48 Hydraulic question

[ElBarranco]

I'm getting ready to buy an L48. I know many of the pros and cons. I need a single machine that will handle trenching/digging and also brush cutting, road blading, etc... The machine will mostly operate above 8500 feet, and never below 7500, so i need all the HP I can get, without getting too big. I know that the L48 isn't perfect (e.g. HST ranges), but my wife assures me I'm not perfect either, just the best available Figure I can't ask for more in a tractor. I rented an L48 last month and it worked well for me.

My local dealer quoted $43,900 (less $1500 rebate at least until end of March) including aux front hydraulics and a Virnig 4-in-1 bucket (I think they call it multi-purpose). i'm going to look around to see if that's the best I can do . I'm headed to Kansas next month, so might see if I can save some money with a dealer in the midwest. I'd love a thumb, but that may have to wait for a bit.

I have a couple of questions for the pros. Does the front hydraulic put out enough to run a hydraulic QA/skid-steer type rotary brush cutter? I think those need at least 11 or 12gpm. Not sure how much pressure. Dealer told me that I could power a hydraulic post=digger for sure. I hope that's correct. I know the total capacity is about 25 gpm, but not sure how that is distributed.

Also, what works well for blading roads & driveways? Does a manual back blade work pretty well? Without the backhoe seems like there should be a ton of hydraulic available out back to drive some kind of blade, but not sure what that involves. I worry a manual will be a pain when I'm trying to clean out the road ditch, and stuff like that.

Also, anybody used those 4-in-1 buckets? The clamshell feature looks very handy for grabbing brush, logs, etc..., but I've never used one (except on a very big treaded machine) so not sure. I wonder if the bucket is as large (cubic feet) as the standard bucket.

thanks a bunch,
-robert

 

[art]

I've not see a hog run off the loader and I'd wonder as to the oil temp that might happen with a constant load on it.
The best for working roads is a box scraper for the rear. It seems to be a better way of dispersing the product and better then a back blade although they both would work. The best results would be to have top and tilt to get the best results.
The four in one buckets normally are smaller then the regular buckets for capacity. Their weight is more and can hinder the load capacity then the standard buckets.

 

[ElBarranco]

I was wondering about the hyd fluid temp. I wonder what skid steers do about that. Do they have a hyd fluid cooler? Why wouldn't the L48 have a hyd fluid cooler? My F350 has a transmission fluid cooler. Seems like a good idea.

For top and tilt on a back box, will I need to get some remotes installed? Or are the backhoe hydraulics available for that?

thanks for the response. I meant to mention in my first post, one thing I really like about the L48 is the very strong frame. Next year I plan to get a Farmi JL501 Skidding Winches: http://www.hud-son.com/JL_501.htm

I think the L48 should be ideal for running that.

-robert

 

[_RaT_]

I was wondering about the hyd fluid temp. I wonder what skid steers do about that. Do they have a hyd fluid cooler? Why wouldn't the L48 have a hyd fluid cooler? My F350 has a transmission fluid cooler. Seems like a good idea.

For top and tilt on a back box, will I need to get some remotes installed? Or are the backhoe hydraulics available for that?

thanks for the response. I meant to mention in my first post, one thing I really like about the L48 is the very strong frame. Next year I plan to get a Farmi JL501 Skidding Winches: The Farmi JL 501 skidding winch represents the medium capacity in the Farmi winch line

I think the L48 should be ideal for running that.

-robert

I don't see the L48 being able to run a brush mower off the hydraulics. Hydraulic motors are pigs when it comes to hydraulic flow. The L48 can easily handle a hydraulic auger provided you get an auger motor that is sized for it. The L48 does have a hydraulic cooler up front. I would not have a tractor without TnT and even a 3rd spool for the hydraulic rippers on a box scraper. My rear remotes on my L48 were not plumbed off the L48's hoe remotes altough that is in the end where it gets the supply. As I recall, the hoe uses the main pump which is a dual pump, one for the power steering, the other for the hoe and loader. The third pump sits directly in front of the engine with a drive shaft coming off the crankshaft. It runs the boom swing and I think the 3 pt hitch. Get the heaviest boxscraper you can. 1000lbs or up.

 

[ElBarranco]

Thanks for the info about the remotes. I'll see what the dealer wants for rear remotes. I can see those being very important - I've got a lot of road to work on. Some of it gets done by a guy with a grader, but it's not easy getting the guy to show up, so I really need to do a lot myself. Will a 7 foot box blade be about right for the L48? Looks like that will let me tilt the box down into a ditch pretty well.

I wasn't too optimistic about getting a hydraulic brush cutter up front, just wanted to be sure. They are so nice for the rugged nasty stuff I've got to clear. Last year a used a PTO 72" Rhino, and I guess I'll get one of those. Fairly heavy duty. Worked well, although i'd rather cut the brush before driving into it.

-robert

 

[_RaT_]

Thanks for the info about the remotes. I'll see what the dealer wants for rear remotes. I can see those being very important - I've got a lot of road to work on. Some of it gets done by a guy with a grader, but it's not easy getting the guy to show up, so I really need to do a lot myself. Will a 7 foot box blade be about right for the L48? Looks like that will let me tilt the box down into a ditch pretty well.

I wasn't too optimistic about getting a hydraulic brush cutter up front, just wanted to be sure. They are so nice for the rugged nasty stuff I've got to clear. Last year a used a PTO 72" Rhino, and I guess I'll get one of those. Fairly heavy duty. Worked well, although i'd rather cut the brush before driving into it.

-robert

I think I would stick with a 72" box. The L48 can pull a loaded 72" pretty well. It can pull a 72" with rippers in hard material only in low (my experience, my soil). It is a very good boxscraper pulling machine. The 72" also covers its tracks. My box was about 1000lbs. The L48's PTO has plenty of power, I pulled a 80" brush mower with double spindles, a Woods D80. It powered it so easily.

 

[curtisfarmer]

I mow alot with my L48 and never thought about putting the mower upfront. I have seen them for sdkid steers and the like and considered one for my KX121, but $8K seemed alot for 36" of cutting head. A mower up front on the L48 would be awsome, just raise it up and lower it down on trees and brush, debris gaurd recommended. I use a 6' (cause it fits in the dump truck body) and it mows over anything. On warm days mowing steep hills I notice a small temp. increase, I am sure the oil is warmer too. Personally, because of the probable cost involved, I would keep my setup the way it is opposed to going up front, cause I like to have the loader on too to remove obstacles such as downed trees and rocks. I bring my mower to all jobs from May till Oct., just in case.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I would at least consider a turbocharged machine for the altitudes you're talking about. That would mean one of the brand new Kubota L40's that are turbocharged or a Deere 110 loader/backhoe. Not that many options, unfortunately.

The 4-in-1 bucket should work well as a front blade and may mitigate the need for a rear angling blade. Sounds like the boxscraper is the best complement to a 4-1 front.

 

[ElBarranco]

Initially I thought a turbo was a must. But then I found the selections are fairly limited (in the size I'm interested in). The JD 100 was a strong candidate, but now I'm not sure whether it's turbo'd or not. In any case, I broadened my search. If I weren't at altitude I think an L39 might do it for me. At my altitude the 48hp of the L48 gets downgraded to 32hp or less. In use I've found the L48 adequate (except for the times I want more power, of course

I was at the dealer today, and got a price on rear remotes, top&tilt and box blade. Remotes and top&tilt (Kubota stuff) will run $2300 installed. Ouch! An 84" Rhino w/ hydraulic scarifier is $2400. Thanks for the encouragement w/ the 4-in-1 and the box blade. Seems like that will be a good combo. My wife's wondering why we can't just hire the road work out, except she knows the answer - not easy getting people to show up when needed. A couple of years ago my road grader guy showed up right in the middle of hunting season. Elk, elk hunters and road equipment do not play nicely together This year he was due in June - he called in late November saying he'd a be a bit late. Doing a lot of the work ourselves will be a big help.

Curtisfarmer, I agree about the utility of a loader when running the cutter. Anyways, the dealer confirmed there's no way an L48 can run a hydraulic motor (off it's own hydraulics). And, I'm getting a Rhino 172 for $1500. A 6 foot hydraulic would be at least $5k. No way worth it for me.

I'm getting close to doing the deed. Kubota has a $1500 rebate which runs out at the end of this month. I doubt I'll pull the trigger before then, so I hope next month has some similar deal.

-robert

 

[Z-Michigan]

For whatever it's worth, the prices you quoted on the Rhino box blade with hydraulic scarifiers and the 72" mower both sound pretty decent. I have recently priced Landpride box blades with manual retractable scarifiers and I was quoted $2700 for an 84". Way too much, IMHO. And I bet the hydraulic version would be several hundred $$ more.

 

[_RaT_]

For whatever it's worth, the prices you quoted on the Rhino box blade with hydraulic scarifiers and the 72" mower both sound pretty decent. I have recently priced Landpride box blades with manual retractable scarifiers and I was quoted $2700 for an 84". Way too much, IMHO. And I bet the hydraulic version would be several hundred $$ more.

My 72" Gearmore box with hydraulic rippers (approx. 1000lbs) was $1600

 

[curtisfarmer]

Regarding road grading and the like, I build, grade, repair, and yada yada yada many gravel roads. I use a box scraper once in a while but usually use my Landpride 35 series 7' blade (don't own box scrapper yet, but will soon). I like the blade for 3/4" to 1-2" crushed gravel (mixed with stone dust, some call it dense pack, crush run, ect.) cause you can crown, move faster, lightly push organic debris such as leaves and what not away, and use the blade in reverse when finishing to give it that perfect look. Also, the blade installs lawns great, again using the blade backwards as it creates a little down pressure and spreads sifted loam (and gravel) like butter. The 35 series has the wing function which allows you to offset 2' to either side, which is verrrryyy handy. Also pivots for angles as well. I would love the TopnTilt feature, I guess I am explaining the poor mans version. I use my blade for plowing as well. Didn't realize how much the Landpride bow was. Ouch. Any gravel road that doesn't have 3+" of 3/4" to 1.5" gravel is difficult to work as your scarifiers will bring up the sub grade, and if it is the usual bank run 8" minus fill, it just pulls the stuff to the top and makes a mess. When building I usually put down 4"+ of finish 3/4" so you can work the road properly and not worry about the sub grade. I can spread 10 wheeler loads in about 5-10 minutes all day long when doing long roads, and big lawns using loam just as fast. The L48 can push right thru a 15 yard pile of whatever and then backdrag once or twice and be done quick when you have trucks stacked up waiting. Very impressive for a 10K lbs. machine. A pile that size would stop a L5030 cold.

 

[witel]

If I weren't at altitude I think an L39 might do it for me. At my altitude the 48hp of the L48 gets downgraded to 32hp or less. In use I've found the L48 adequate.

Just out of curiosity, how/where did you find the HP-vs-altitude curves for the L39 and L48? I'd be interested in seeing that type of information for my own research.

 

[ElBarranco]

Nothing terribly sophisticated, I'm afraid. At 8500 we have about 30% less "air" than at sea level. So normally aspirated engines have about 30% less power. Very roughly, the amount of air at X feet above sea level is e^(-X/25000). (That's from memory, the 25,000 is close, I'm pretty sure.)

Any pilots on the list can probably give you more exact figures. I think pilots figure that pressure is down 50% at 17000 feet.

I'm sure the relationship between air pressure or density and engine power is not exact, but around here we pretends like it is.

-robert

 

[curtisfarmer]

How about a blower/ supercharger??? 1/2 joking, but that would be impressive. More air for sure. It would look like Mel Gibson in Road Warrior with a huge supercharger sticking out of the hood. When he needed to catch criminals in his cruiser he would turn on the supercharger....and instant high speed. Please dress accordingly.

p.s. A supercharger may overcome our problem of 4.7MPH in medium HST!!!!

 

[ElBarranco]

I would love to add some kind of blower or turbo, but not sure how much would be involved. My local dealer sells a turbo kit for my RTV 900. I really want it, but it's $3000. But I do keep in mind that maybe somebody will make an affordable turbo kit for the L48 someday.

-robert