Laminated beam

[bones1]

Some great ideas you've given me.Tom,I will NOT try to build an LVL myself.Egon, I have two engine lifts already and they get in the way most of the time.The microlam seems very interesting and I will try to find out the size needed to span 30 ft and carry 1k in weight.Sure wish i could find a nice aluminum I beam.

 

[gordon21]

Microlams will need to be ordered whether you buy from a big box store or a local "real" lumberyard. 5-10 day lead time is required. Tell them your needs and they can look up what specs are required. Keep in mind that any beam this long, whether metal or wood, will not be cheap. Expect this to run $600-1000

One nice advantage to buying a wood solution is that virtually every wood seller offers curb delivery for $59 or less. Depending upon your trailer/towing situation, the ability to have someone else deliver a 30' beam into your residential driveway and use their forklift to unload it is very attractive.

I don't think you will typically find steel or aluminum dealers doing curbside deliveries to residential areas with 30' lengths at all, much less for $59 The key word here is residential. Over the road freight companies have surcharges for residential delivery running from $50-150. The cheapest way to get anything big delivered is by a lumber yard style delivery truck with the piggyback forklift. The delivery guy from Home Depot spends half his day making residential deliveries and is used to homeowners pointing to the exact spot where they want something put. A 30' beam on the back of a lumberyard truck will travel there easily. A typical homeowner has access to flat trailers 16'-20' long. That still leaves 10' or more sticking out the back.
That will not go over well in traffic or with the local cops/DOT.

 

[bones1]

Well,I suppose I have to use a steel beam.I have called two lvl companies and they say they can't build one that will span 30ft and be able to lift 2000 lbs and both recommend steel beams.I was hoping it could be done with wood.Now the search for the correct size beam begins.

 

[schmism]

Well,I suppose I have to use a steel beam.I have called two lvl companies and they say they can't build one that will span 30ft and be able to lift 2000 lbs and both recommend steel beams.I was hoping it could be done with wood.Now the search for the correct size beam begins.

thats not right, i know for a fact that fairly normal LVL can span that (in a multi ply version)

 

[bones1]

Schmism.I just tried another company,same answer again.Do you know of a company who might build one.?Thanks.

 

[tommu56]

bones1

I put steel beam in a friends pole barn 10 years ago below one of his trusses.
We made some pipe legs that clamp to the bottom of the beam and he puts these a couple of feet on each side of vehicle when he is pulling engine to carry the load and puts them against the post at the outside of the building for storage.

tommu56

 

[bones1]

tommu56,was it a small beam and how did you attach it to the walls.Mine needs to go across to both sides and sit down on top of cut off 4x6's that are attached to the sides of the existing 4x6"s with steel plates and thru bolts, that came with the bldg.Trying to get an idea of what size beam I can use without needing supports.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

...Trying to get an idea of what size beam I can use without needing supports.

I believe that a steel I-beam 10" deep x 4 5/8" wide is a standard size (according to my Mark's Handbook) and should support your load over a 30' span.

 

[EddieWalker]

I bought three 3 1/2 inch by 13 3/4 inch Glue Lam beams yesterday that are 22 feet long for $657 delivered from Lowes. I ordered them yesterday, and they brought them out to the job by noon today.

Eddie

 

[bones1]

Thanks Tom.I can tell you are an engineer by owning that book.That's the information I need and works out to about 25.4 lbs per foot.762 lb beam.
Eddie thanks for that info as well.What load do your glue lams carry and do you know the approximate weight.What are the chances of bolting two glue lams together and using them if they will carry the weight.Thanks again to all.

 

[toolnut]

bones1,

I'm trying to decide on similar options for an overhead hoist and had pretty well decided on just adding a steel I beam when I find a good deal on one at a salvage yard. My pole barn is only 22 ft span for the trusses (34 ft long), and also only 10 ft high.

But a couple of other ideas I will mention....One is putting in a 2 post car lift and using it for some overhead lifting tasks....of course with lots caveats in properly rigging it. To be honest I've never owned a lift before, but they sure look tempting now that you can get one for less than 2K. I like working on cars, tractors, etc...but don't do enough to justify a higher end lift.

The other item I considered was this...(sorry bout the tag line..)

Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

Just another idea, it would take more room, but it would be kinda nice to be able to able to move a load sideways for some tasks. Looked at one at the local HF and it looked OK. Don't know if I would trust it for 2000 lb, but overall it looked pretty beefy.

-toolnut

 

[bones1]

Toolnut, I looked at the same ideas as well.Even the HF gantry crane and some nice floor mounted jib cranes that would do it.For some reason I keep coming back to an overhead idea.A steel beam or Paralam or two bolted together,either one could be set up with a trolley.

 

[tuolumne]

Hello, I'm seeing this post for the first time today, as a structual engineer, it quickly caught my eye. I've read most of it and can offer this. A steel I-beam is the cheapest solution, and lighter than the timber. Lateral bracing is essential. Without top flange bracing, any of the beam options will buckle laterally and fail under very little load. I would recommend a W10x22 which will easily support your load if braced laterally at midspan. This beam is 10"x 5.75" and weighs 22 lbs per foot or 660 lbs total. I rigged similar weight beams quite easily into my home with a rope and a few pulleys. I'd be glad to answer other questions or provide as much theory as you like. LVLs cost a fortune, and I don't think you want to start fabricating glulams or plywood box beams. A W12x26 steel beam will give you a lot of extra capacity at little extra expense. Find a local fabricator and ask him what is left over from the last job. Often (engineers!) change things mid stream and the fabricator will have unused beams available.

 

[bones1]

Thanks for your help.Can you clarify "lateral bracing" maybe with a link to some pictures.Again thank you.

 

[tuolumne]

Well, a basement carrying beam in a house is supported laterally by the floor joists. This in anything to prevent the beam from moving sideways. Picture standing a a 2x12 edgewise without it tipping over. Now do the same with your friend holding it upright. Can you tie into the bottom chord of the roof trusses? If there is nothing available for a long ways, consider diagonal members going back the exterior walls at the third points. If you can make a sketch of the plan view layout of your proposed building, I'll mark it up.

 

[bones1]

Ahh, now I see.Take a look at this picture of the shop please.http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/shenders/barn081.jpg I would like to place the steel beam across(parallel) to the truss but lower and bolt (sister) another 4x6 beam cut shorter for the steel beam to rest on next to the existing beam.I could also drill the steel beam and bolt it to the wooden taller beam for lateral support. What do you think of this idea?.Thanks so much.Or bring it right next to the truss and rest it on the 2x12 headers.I don't know if the 2x12 headers would be strong enough for that.

 

[tuolumne]

The photo link isn't working for me.

Edit: nevermind, it worked.

I believe that when you are saying beam, you mean column. Yes, bolting a new column next to the existing is a good way to pick up the ends of this steel beam. If your steel beam is lower than the truss, you could run a diagonal chain or cable up to the truss on each side (this would only act in tension). From there, run a 2x4 diagonally (in the horizontal plane) back to the sidewalls and nail to each truss bottom chord. A rule of thumb for such lateral bracing is 2% of the design load. In this case, your chain, 2x4, connections need to transfer a load of 100 lbs (assuming 5000 lb vertical) to the sidewalls. This doesn't sound like much, but without it you're sunk. You can easily find a chainfall that will ride the bottom flange of an i-beam. If it were me, I would put the beam up above or even with the joists to get it out of the way visually and physically. You don't need to reach it once the chainfall is attached and it would be easer to brace.

 

[bones1]

Sorry,yes column.So, do not rest the steel beam on the 2x12 headers, use the columns instead correct?."If your steel beam is lower than the truss, you could run a diagonal chain or cable up to the truss on each side (this would only act in tension). From there, run a 2x4 diagonally (in the horizontal plane) back to the sidewalls and nail to each truss bottom chord. A rule of thumb for such lateral bracing is 2% of the design load. In this case, your chain, 2x4, connections need to transfer a load of 100 lbs (assuming 5000 lb vertical) to the sidewalls. This doesn't sound like much, but without it you're sunk."I'm trying to decipher the above.You are very helpful, thanks.I'm normally not this thick.......or am I?.

 

[tuolumne]

I doubt the connection capacity of the 2x12s is sufficient. Of course, you could lag a 4 foot piece of 2x to the column butted tight to the underside of the 2x12's to beef that up.

Sorry for all that talk about load path. Whatever route you chose just make sure the connections can transfer 100 lbs back to the sidewalls. I'll be back on Monday.

 

[Egon]

Aah, go get someone with the proper credentials to design the beam of your choice! The chances are very good the supplier will will supply this service for you.

They may even suggest the proper support column for the beam and suggest bracing or lateral support to keep it all honest.

Beats guessing??