Laminated beam

[bones1]

Got the sizing specs back from Blue Linx tonight.They make the laminates for Georgia Pacific.Engineer says to use three 1 3/4x18 x32 ft lvl's and gave me a specific pattern for nailing them together at the ends.He says they will more than hold 2000lbs in the center when tripled up like this.Much easier to install putting them up one at a time too.Will have to price them to see if this is a better alternative than a steel beam.My real concern is the weight of the steel beam and what it will take to get it 12 ft up.

 

[bones1]

Got the laminated beam pricing today.3 1 3/4 x18x30 beams delivered will run $683.00.Next I will try to find a steel supplier in my area to price a steel beam.

 

[tuolumne]

...Much easier to install putting them up one at a time too...

Think 300 lb wet noodle
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Make sure that your laminations are perfectly straight before nailing them together. Any centerline deviantion will drastically reduce the critical buckling load. I would recommend a redundant diagonal brace at midspan as a minium. Luck.

Edit, I should have mentioned that the most I've paid for a similar length/weight steel beam in CT is about $275, and often less than $200 and these numbers include holes for blocking.

 

[MrJimi]

Got the laminated beam pricing today.3 1 3/4 x18x30 beams delivered will run $683.00.Next I will try to find a steel supplier in my area to price a steel beam.

I live in a large city and I picked up my steel beam and I don't think it was as high as your wood beam and I brought mine home on a 19 foot boat trailer with a red flag on back, worked real good
lots of $$ can be saved by getting it your self

 

[bones1]

Still waiting on a price of the steel beam you suggested.Will go from there.I like the idea of a trolley on the beam,don't know if I can adapt a trolley on a wood beam.There may be something available for that.

 

[MrJimi]

The beam I bought was 16 inches from top to bottom and it will support my second floor and it weighs 36 pounds per foot, I posted 31 pounds earlier but I was wrong.
What size beam will make your day? I can make a call here in Fl. and just ask how much for how long etc. It will give you an idea on how much to expect?
You do want to get the exact size you need and the trolly's will work fine on them,
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[schmism]

They make the laminates for Georgia Pacific.Engineer says to use three 1 3/4x18 x32 ft lvl's and gave me a specific pattern for nailing them together at the ends.

yes i belive i said a muliti ply LVL would work fine in this situation on post 4. as you can set each LVL individually keeping the weight managable and then connect them with a proper nailing pattern.

as for useing a trolly on the LVL, id inquire about useing some H channel on its side bolted to the bottom of the LVL at regular intervals. that would give you an I beam type bottom to put a regular trolly on.

if that isnt going to work (you cant get someone to spec it for you) then it should be fairly easy to fab up a steel sling that sits down over the top of the beem and allows you to attach a chain hoist to. you just have to manually shift it should you choose.

 

[bones1]

ill pull up my beam softwere and run some LVL for ya

my softwere says a 30' 2 ply 2x14 (1.75x13.875) Versa-lam 2800-2.0 will hold 3000lbs at center span at 97% capacity.

you might check with your local lumber yard as to what kind of LVL they can get. Working in the industry i can tell you it goes all the way to (at least) 2' deep
note at full load (3K) look for almost 2" of deflection. (1.92" says my softwere)

oh must add disclamer, the above is for refrance only... if you hang the empire state building from it and it crashes down on your head, dont come looking for me

schmism, do you think this is more than needed judging from your software?.Three 1 3/4x18 x32 ft lvl's .Your calcs show 2 and only 14 deep.I'm thinking too much

MRJIMI, thanks. If I don't hear back from them tomorrow I'll take you up on that quote.It is a w10x22x30 ft.

Tuolumne, anywhere near $275 and the steel wins.

 

[MrJimi]

Bones, how tall and long do ya want the steel beam and dont forget it is termite proof
for instance mine is 16 inches tall and 24 feet 4 inches long and it is capable of holding 52,000 pounds in the middle !! and, yes, I build stuff overkill

 

[have_blue]

If cost is a factor, think about a steel-wood hybrid beam.

An inexpensive 1/4" thick steel strap along the bottom of a wooden beam would make it very strong. Also, a pair of 30' 2x6's with 1/8" steel sandwiched in between would be super strong and rigid. Slow cure epoxy is great for laminating wood to steel, and Gorilla Glue isn't bad either.

 

[tuolumne]

If cost is a factor, think about a steel-wood hybrid beam.

An inexpensive 1/4" thick steel strap along the bottom of a wooden beam would make it very strong. Also, a pair of 30' 2x6's with 1/8" steel sandwiched in between would be super strong and rigid. Slow cure epoxy is great for laminating wood to steel, and Gorilla Glue isn't bad either.

There's nothing wrong with composite beams as you describe; I just wounldn't stand under your 2x6 version going 30 feet! Flitch plate beams (vertical steel sandwiched between wood) are a waste of money and good bolts. The steel in the center is just wasted, and there's not enough at the top and bottom to do much good. In construction, LVLs seem to have made them history. Making a composite beam with steel plates top and bottom is good sense and very effective if done correctly. This is just an I-beam that uses a wooden web in lieu of steel. Good bolting or glue is required for shear transfer.

For the gentleman that suggested a double 14" LVL. I believe your progam includes bracing at 24" o.c. any more than that and the beam will fail in lateral torsional buckling mode. Even braced at 24" o.c. the deflections are a tad high eh. Rule of thumb for defelctions with wood, never size a beam less than span/2. For example, a 30 foot span should not be tackled with beam less than 15" deep even if strength appears to be OK.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

schmism, do you think this is more than needed judging from your software?.Three 1 3/4x18 x32 ft lvl's .Your calcs show 2 and only 14 deep.I'm thinking too much
...

Bones, check back to post #4 in this thread. The (3) 1.75x18 configuration is very close to the sizing I gave you in that post. The beam is sized by allowable deflection, not maximum strength. Believe me, it's not too much.

 

[bones1]

I got a steel beam price today.$525.00 delivered.Thats a w10x22x30ft beam and I have no idea what beams run.I suppose now I do.

 

[MrJimi]

I got a steel beam price today.$525.00 delivered.Thats a w10x22x30ft beam and I have no idea what beams run.I suppose now I do.

Bones, I need some help here,
your beam is 10 inches wide and 22 inches tall and 30 feet long, is that correct? what does it weigh total or per foot

 

[bones1]

Thats 10'' deep x5.75 widex30 ft long.The weight is 22lbs/ft.Thanks MrJimi.

 

[MrJimi]

Heck, I wasn't even close, will that support your 1,000 pounds in the center ? spanned 30 feet
and it is a H beam or I beam

 

[Tom_Veatch]

Bones, I need some help here,
your beam is 10 inches wide and 22 inches tall and 30 feet long, is that correct? what does it weigh total or per foot

Not quite, MrJimi. Check post #33. The designation W10X22 is for a Wide Flange Beam, 10" deep weighing 22 pounds per foot. Flange width is 5.75 inches.

Bones, I'll second tuolumne in advising that beam should be adequate, although I notice that your working load has changed from 1000# in post #1 to 2000# in Post #23. If the 2000# is the correct figure, I'll encourage you to consider the W12X26 (12" deep, 6 1/2" flange, 26#/foot), for the extra margin and stiffness both transverse and lateral. The W12 beam should have roughly the same deflection under 2000# as the W10 under 1000# loading. I also strongly encourage you to pay attention to tuolumne's recommendation for lateral bracing or blocking.

When the beam is loaded, the lower flange is in tension, the upper in compression. Think of that upper flange as being a long thin column in compression - not exactly the same situation, but similiar. A long thin member in compression is just looking for an excuse to buckle. I know, intuition says the vertical load on the lower flange will keep it from rolling sideways, but it won't. Stabilize it with lateral bracing or, sure as the world, it will twist and buckle under load.

To get an intuitive feeling for what happens, think of picking up a long 1x12 and trying to hold it with the 12" dimension vertical. That sucker will twist and bow at the least provocation. To quote tuolumne from post #43, "Think 300 lb wet noodle". The steel is much stiffer and doesn't exhibit the behaviour quite so drastically, but the principle is much the same.

Good luck!

 

[tuolumne]

I got a steel beam price today.$525.00 delivered.Thats a w10x22x30ft beam and I have no idea what beams run.I suppose now I do.

That sounds pretty expensive, but it's still better than the LVLs...and believe me, it will actually be easier to install. The price may be that high because it's a special order for that supplier. You may actually get a better deal on a heavier beam if it's something they have in stock. A W14x22 is much more common, the same weight and a bit stiffer. It has a narrower flange, so lateral bracing is even more important. Just look for something a minium depth of 10" and minimum weight of 22 lbs per foot and take what's available. You have plenty of room so a W16x26 which is very widely available would also work well. Good luck.

 

[tuolumne]

Tom - a good simple explanation of the lateral buckling phenomenon. It is counterintuitive for most folks. That top flange can't buckle downward because of the web, so eventually she just peels off to the side.

Bones - If you don't want to bother with the lateral bracing, use a W12x26. Keep in mind that this beam is not overdesigned in any way. When the beam weight is subtracted, you can hang 1,963 lbs including the chainfall before you get lateral-torsional buckling. Put a brace at center span, and your allowable load goes to over 7000 lbs. Keep in mind that these numbers are for 50 ksi steel which is the commonly material for wide flanges today.

 

[schmism]

schmism, do you think this is more than needed judging from your software?.Three 1 3/4x18 x32 ft lvl's .Your calcs show 2 and only 14 deep.I'm thinking too much

My softwere assumes some basic braceing cryteria that may not be applicable to your situattion.

To address that issue you need more material in the beam to make it stiffer.

Therefore (is it more than needed?) no the quote you got seems reasonable for the condition you have.