Landscape Rake the Best Option?

[shibaura_4043]

I have a riding arena that I decided to restore to its original purpose,( previously used as part of my rotational grazing program:thumbsup: ) I disc'ed and drug the arena and much to my surprise the base is rocky dirt. When we get a good rain it really exposes the amount of rock in the soil. Other areas of my property are not this rocky, maybe the previous owner was planning on making a solid base and bringing in sand to spread over the semi-rock base. Unfortunately I cant purchase that much sand right now and I need to get the majority of the rocks removed from the arena. When I drag the arena it makes the arena somewhat useable but Im nervous to really work my horse hard when all this rock is present. Is adding rock a standard practice to help with erosion control? As the title says is a landscape rake the best option for rock removal? Most of the rocks are the round smooth style. Here's a pic to give you guys an idea of what Im dealing with. Before people start posting.....Yes Im aware of the low spots throughout the arena, I know I need to work on my dragging skills.

 

[art]

When you said rocks I thought you meant ROCKS. For the stones you have a york rake would bring some along to gather and be easier to pick. Around here frost will bring them to the top if not this year but next so it can be frustrating because you can pick nearly every year. They would still surface even to put sand across the top of the field. To rent a powered rock rake once a year might be your best choice.

 

[jenkinsph]

I would use a harley rake to windrow and pick up the piles. I deal with this sized stones all the time with a hand rake too, raking circles into piles to pick up.

 

[shibaura_4043]

I guess "stones"would have been a better description, my bad. I'm not familiar with a power rock rake. You have any pics of one?

 

[shibaura_4043]

I would use a harley rake to windrow and pick up the piles. I deal with this sized stones all the time with a hand rake too, raking circles into piles to pick up.

Thanks for the advice, as for hand raking I tried that and after a few hrs of raking and feeling like I didn't make any progress I quickly gave up and decided there had to be a better way. Which led me to TBN to start this thread.

 

[284 International]

I have been around a couple people who built fancy arenas. They scraped out the arena then trucked in gravel to fill in as the base. Then the upper arena surface (sand, decomposed granite, etc) was trucked in and poured on top. The gravel was to provide an area for drainage to keep standing water from developing on the arena surface.

Depending on how deep your sand surface is, you could, for relatively small amounts of money, build, or have fabricated, a sifter that uses expanded metal and a cutting blade up front, kind of like a landplane, to sift the sand and collect the rocks.

 

[shibaura_4043]

I have been around a couple people who built fancy arenas. They scraped out the arena then trucked in gravel to fill in as the base. Then the upper arena surface (sand, decomposed granite, etc) was trucked in and poured on top. The gravel was to provide an area for drainage to keep standing water from developing on the arena surface.

Depending on how deep your sand surface is, you could, for relatively small amounts of money, build, or have fabricated, a sifter that uses expanded metal and a cutting blade up front, kind of like a landplane, to sift the sand and collect the rocks.

Thanks, I was really hoping a landscape rake would do the trick...it was just the excuse I needed to go ahead and buy a LSR. The sifter is an interesting idea I may try to come up with something similar.

 

[RDrancher]

I would use a harley rake to windrow and pick up the piles. I deal with this sized stones all the time with a hand rake too, raking circles into piles to pick up.

I'll second that idea. Here's a power (Harley) rake mounted on a CTL, but you should be able to find a pto powered unit for your tractor for rent.

 

[284 International]

Landscape rakes are nice, don't get me wrong, and I like mine, but they aren't going to move rocks of that size. They DO leave a nice, smooth, soft surface behind, so you may be able to justify the purchase anyway.... I've never used a harley rake, but enough other people recommend them that may be an option. You would still be stuck with them in a windrow, but that's at least out of the way.

 

[shibaura_4043]

thanks for the pic rdrancher...I may see what it cost to rent one. Does it remove rock or embed it into the soil? Reason I ask is b/c I see a little rock content in the pic. Obviously I have never used one but I dont want to rent one and be disappointed with the results.

 

[jenkinsph]

When you run the Harley rake the rotating spiked drums are angled and they walk the rocks to the trailling edge leaving them in a small windrow. you can make another pass on the opposite side and add to the windrow. You wind up with a windrow to pick up every 10 to 12 of width so it eliminates alot of raking. For areas that don't require it to be quite as rock free you can double up the windrows again and leave less piles to clean up.

If you can rent one in your locale that would save a ton of time and money.

 

[sixdogs]

The answer is not to rake them at all. Bury them with a rototller. I do it all the time.

On a lawn I helped a neighbor with there were lots of smaller than a baseball sized rocks around and the neighbor was determined to pick them up. I came in and rototilled it and he couldn't find a one of them. I then pulled a heavy Brillion packer (8 ft wide @3,000 lbs) over it and flattened things out to settle it and push any marginal rocks below grade. That part is a must or all the rocks will surface again. After a couple rains a few rocks came up and we picked those up by hand.

I use a rock rake occasionally but not as much as I used to. For me it is a levelling tool with the tractor set in draft control, You can make a field flat as a pancake with repeated passes that way. Then I come in with my six ft HD tiller set on deep and the rocks are gone. Oh, when tilling in rocks, just make one pass with the tiller set on deep and go as slow as you can. My L4300 goes approx 1.1 MPH in first gear.

On a field as you describe, you can pick rocks till the cows come home and there will always be more. By getting them below the surface a few will show but you can pick those by hand. The above is what works for me. Now, if you want to rent a Harley rake that's fine. Just do the rototill thing afterwards and what's left will vanish.

 

[greg_g]

X2. Wet it down and pack'em back in. Othwise you'll eventually have to truck in more fill to replace what you've raked out over time

//greg//

 

[RDrancher]

thanks for the pic rdrancher...I may see what it cost to rent one. Does it remove rock or embed it into the soil? Reason I ask is b/c I see a little rock content in the pic. Obviously I have never used one but I dont want to rent one and be disappointed with the results.

There's a bit of a learning curve, but the process goes pretty fast. In the photo I was spreading dirt and not really trying to remove all of the rocks. I just posted it so you could take a look at the rake. There was a thread I came across here on TBN that had some excellent photos of a tractor mounted Harley rake working, so you might want to do a search for it. The thread was from back in 2008 I believe. Also, Bobcat Ninja has a great video on youtube using the rake.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

If you scroll to the bottom of the Tractor Harley Rake page on our website, you can watch a video we made of one in action.

 

[shibaura_4043]

thanks to all who replied. sixdogs, I was thinking about getting a rototiller anyways for gardening and other purposes, but Im not sure its the answer to my arena problem. since I dont want to plant seed and the surface will always be soft( 2-3" layer of loose dirt all the time) I fail to see how the rocks will not resurface each time it rains. Will the amount of rocks in my arena cause problems for a rototiller? thanks

 

[sixdogs]

1---No problem--I once rototilled my 400 ft, large (2 1/2") rock driveway (with a heavy duty tiller) and moved it 40 feet away.

2---If you rototill---- and then pack flat--- rocks will not surface to any degree. That has been my experience in maybe 600 acres. You must pack it flat, however.
I'm not exactly sure why but think my old days of science in school hold a clue. Maybe the flat surface creates some sort of "hydraulic pressure", for want of a better phrase, that causes the surface to remain level and the rocks to stay suspended. Much the way bananas stay below the surface of jello when it cools in the fridge despite it being stirred up when partially cooled.
Whatever rocks resurface over time you can simply pick up at your leisure a few at a time. And the ground will not be soft if you oack it firm with a heavy packer as I stated.

3--my vote is to use the tiller on a very slow speed as opposed to rock raking it. That way it stays level and rocks stay under. Raking the rocks will only leave a fair number that are partially exposed and ground that is packed hard. You'll never get them all by picking and I have tried every which way from Sunday to get rid of rocks.

So, evaluate and follow your path.

EDIT--it would help if you filled in your info a little bit so we could guess at your soil type, glacial till, etc.

 

[shibaura_4043]

1---No problem--I once rototilled my 400 ft, large (2 1/2") rock driveway (with a heavy duty tiller) and moved it 40 feet away.

2---If you rototill---- and then pack flat--- rocks will not surface to any degree. That has been my experience in maybe 600 acres. You must pack it flat, however.
I'm not exactly sure why but think my old days of science in school hold a clue. Maybe the flat surface creates some sort of "hydraulic pressure", for want of a better phrase, that causes the surface to remain level and the rocks to stay suspended. Much the way bananas stay below the surface of jello when it cools in the fridge despite it being stirred up when partially cooled.
Whatever rocks resurface over time you can simply pick up at your leisure a few at a time. And the ground will not be soft if you oack it firm with a heavy packer as I stated.

3--my vote is to use the tiller on a very slow speed as opposed to rock raking it. That way it stays level and rocks stay under. Raking the rocks will only leave a fair number that are partially exposed and ground that is packed hard. You'll never get them all by picking and I have tried every which way from Sunday to get rid of rocks.

So, evaluate and follow your path.

EDIT--it would help if you filled in your info a little bit so we could guess at your soil type, glacial till, etc.

I live in the north texas area.

thanks for the explanation, dont I want the top layer to be somewhat soft and absorbant so my horse has good footing? I guess thats where Im a little confused about packing it hard... So I go as deep as I can the first time i till..pack it and then with regular maintenance only till like 2" deep to avoid the rocks resurfacing as often? Man, I was thinking about buying a car hauler this weekend... now it sounds like I might be buying a rototiller. my next question would be, who makes a solid/durable rototiller at a reasonable price?

 

[sixdogs]

Maybe till a little bit at a time to loosen and then till the final time extra deep to do the job. Easier on the tiller that way. Or maybe have someone cultivate it six inches deep and then till the already loosened ground. Either way is same result.

After the ground is tilled and packed with a very heavy packer, it's still soft in the sense it's not rock hard. Here's a photo attached of very hard ground that was tilled and then packed. It's soft now but will firm up a lot after a rain. Yet it's not hard in absolute sense. It's "soft" as it sandy, even though it's clay but it's not "hard" as the ground on the left. This arragement would look very similar in softness/hardness to most arenas I have seen over the years. I'm not that versed with horses and behavior and while I owned one in the past, she always left me baffled.

A lot of this is subjective and my personal opinion is based on experience over the years on stuff I learned the hard way. This is an art form as opposed to a science so it will take a while to figure out what you want. I could teach my method but it would take 25 hours and then could be challenged by someone else with a he-said, she said kind of thing. Don't buy anything until you think it out. The $$ will still be there and you'll make fewer mistakes. You'll still make them, just less of them.

 

[jenkinsph]

I live in the north texas area.

thanks for the explanation, dont I want the top layer to be somewhat soft and absorbant so my horse has good footing? I guess thats where Im a little confused about packing it hard... So I go as deep as I can the first time i till..pack it and then with regular maintenance only till like 2" deep to avoid the rocks resurfacing as often? Man, I was thinking about buying a car hauler this weekend... now it sounds like I might be buying a rototiller. my next question would be, who makes a solid/durable rototiller at a reasonable price?

I live in New Mexico and use a tiller frequently, i agree that tilling deep will allow you to push the gravel down when you roll it out. It is not as good as collecting the gravel in the top layer leaving the fines behind. Not saying you will get them all but you can increase the concentration of fines by removing a high percentage of the rocks. The harley rake will help more with gathering the rocks.