Latest coyote killer....

[westcliffe01]

So finally today I got out to the range with the Savage 10 precision carbine I recently bought from a forum member on MGO. I ordered a Warne 20MOA one piece optics rail and already had the Nikon Monarch 4-16x50 scope and Warne Maxima steel rings. I loctited the Rail in place on the receiver as well as the threads of the 4 bolts that hold it in place. I did not use any loctite on the rings or ring fasteners since a 223 does not have much recoil to begin with.

As far as ammo, I had 223 Hornady TAP 55gr as well as Hornady 75gr HPBT match ammo. I was not able to buy an in between weight at the local stores and I do not buy "so called" military ammo for precision shooting. I did get 69gr sierra HPBT bullets and Hornady 68gr HPBT bullets but have not yet made up a batch to shoot. I have been shooting 55gr Hornady ammo for a while in my Remington 700 SPS Varmint (26" 1:12 twist). While I have been satisfied with the accuracy of the combination, longer shots (250-350 yards) have been significantly influenced by wind and the topography I am dealing with makes wind influence very unpredictable.

So the goal with the Savage was to evaluate the capability with the heavier bullets to about 75gr (1:9 twist barrel). I did not know if the 1:9 would stabilize a 75gr bullet and one of the reasons for choosing the Hornady bullet is because it is one of the shortest 75gr bullets. Those from Berger and the Amax are all longer. If things were not that good, or I felt the need to go to even heavier VLD's, then the Savage would be an affordable platform on which to swap out the barrel for a fast twist match version. This is my first Savage and also my first rifle with the accutrigger as well as an accustock.

So after arriving and sighting in the scope on the rifle at 25 yards (which required a few minutes of elevation correction) I moved on to 100 yards and 4 rounds of Hornady 55gr TAP ammo. After the first round, I made a -4moa elevation adjustment, the remaining 3 rounds gave a 1/2" group, despite the gusting winds and swirl. I had also forgotten my bench rest, so was shooting from basically "field" conditions.

The next 4 rounds were the 75gr HPBT Hornady rounds and that also yielded a 1/2" group. So it appears that for conditions close to freezing with snow falling (relatively high humidity) I have enough stability margin with the 1:9 twist for the 75gr bullet. How these bullets will perform on Coyotes ? I don't know yet, but if I can hit them, it is unlikely they will return. That, for the sheep farmer, is the most important thing...

 

[westcliffe01]

I also got out and shot the CZ 512 22WMR for the first time. This is planned to be my night time coyote gun, in this nanny state where one may not discharge a center fire rifle after sunset...

The scope is a Weaver 1.5-4.5x24 with an illuminated reticle (single red dot, very tiny). It has a 30mm tube and I had to find rings to go from the 11mm receiver rail to the 30mm tube. Not too many places have them in stock...

 

[RobertBrown]

I'm glad you're posting this, thanks for taking the time to do so :thumbsup:
The target pictured is at 100 yards with the 75 grain bullet? Factory ammo?
Keep up the testing I'm very curious as to how this weapon will group the 75 grain round.

 

[westcliffe01]

Yes, sorry about the description. The picture of the target is of the 4 rounds of Hornady 75gr HPBT match ammo.

You can see the bullet here on this lineup:
Compare its length to the 75gr Amax or the 75gr Berger VLD.

It has a ballistic coefficient close to 0.4. Not as good as the VLD's but as close as I am going to get without a custom barrel.

 

[RobertBrown]

My experience is, that group there, while not as tight as you might want, is far better then you will get with the .22mag at that range.
You put that gun on a rest and it may look that good at 150 yds.
Start loading your own ammo and your probably where you want to be... killing them before they hit the ground at 100+
What type of caller do you use?

 

[westcliffe01]

I have not found calling to be effective. I think the dogs are "educated". So I apply only "ambush" tactics covering the paths they use. This winter we have only had snow on the ground about 4 times I have been out, so it has been much harder than expected to track their movements. Fortunately, the "bait" (sheep) emerge from the barn about the same time and place every day, so that is the big draw...

 

[westcliffe01]

My experience is, that group there, while not as tight as you might want, is far better then you will get with the .22mag at that range.
You put that gun on a rest and it may look that good at 150 yds.
Start loading your own ammo and your probably where you want to be... killing them before they hit the ground at 100+
What type of caller do you use?

I don't think I will be shooting 100 yards at night... It seems that on average, the predators will approach much closer at night, hence why i got a low magnification (wide angle) scope.

I would expect to be shooting close to 3" at 300 yards and that should be good enough for a coyote.

 

[RobertBrown]

I don't think I will be shooting 100 yards at night...

Have you got one of these?

 

[westcliffe01]

This is what I am getting:

It is sold here: hog hunting lights, feeder lights, blood trailing aids

About $130. LED based. Red LED does not require a separate filter. Have read very good feedback on them and apparently battery life is very good compared to incandescent based systems.

They also have green, but green apparently does not work good on coyotes. I will probably get a green anyway, since the human eye is more sensitive to green so it is a better "general purpose" light than red. They have white too.

 

[RobertBrown]

This is what I am getting:

It is sold here: hog hunting lights, feeder lights, blood trailing aids

About $130. LED based. Red LED does not require a separate filter. Have read very good feedback on them and apparently battery life is very good compared to incandescent based systems.

They also have green, but green apparently does not work good on coyotes. I will probably get a green anyway, since the human eye is more sensitive to green so it is a better "general purpose" light than red. They have white too.

Yea I have one, and it's the cats *****.
That LED looks to be the way to go, you don't have to carry a separate battery and 1.5 hours is plenty. I don't have my light on for more than 30-60 seconds at a time anyway. 2 ten year batteries!
130$ is about twice what I paid, but I'd say that it's worth it.

The only thing I know that green is good for is following a blood trail. I've never used it (head shots...don't leave a blood trail ).
But I guess the blood shows up as black and is more apparent than with a regular flash light.

 

[brin]

I have question to those of you familiar with Coyotes....They are new to our area or at least I have not seen any of them until yesterday....maybe, and here is the question...

Yesterday I was in my home office which is in the front of the house and I was looking out the window and saw (2) Dogs or Coyotes in a trot going down our road....Now they were identical, as if perfect twins...same color a redish brown with bushy tail about the size of a fox or a little bigger...but we have fox here and they were not foxes...I am fairly sure of that...it was mid day and again they were exact twins....I myself , other than at a dog breeders, have never seen exact twin dogs together out in the wild so that makes me wonder if what I saw was a pair of coyotes....What do you guys think ?

 

[RobertBrown]

What do you guys think ?

Get your 22-250 and a mouth squealer and see if you can get both.:laughing::thumbsup:

Most coyotes look alike. If they are siblings they could be twins I suppose. It wouldn't surprise me. I really don't know how often that happens.
Is that what your asking? weather they are twins or not?

 

[/pine]

I have question to those of you familiar with Coyotes....They are new to our area or at least I have not seen any of them until yesterday....maybe, and here is the question...

Yesterday I was in my home office which is in the front of the house and I was looking out the window and saw (2) Dogs or Coyotes in a trot going down our road....Now they were identical, as if perfect twins...same color a redish brown with bushy tail about the size of a fox or a little bigger...but we have fox here and they were not foxes...I am fairly sure of that...it was mid day and again they were exact twins....I myself , other than at a dog breeders, have never seen exact twin dogs together out in the wild so that makes me wonder if what I saw was a pair of coyotes....What do you guys think ?

brin, If I recall you are not that far from where I am in GA (Rabun Co.)

Last summer we started hearing reports of 'Red Wolves' being in the area ...many had seen a pack of at least 4 wolves thinking they were coyotes until one was killed and positively identified...
...The district ranger said that they have worked their way south from the where they were released in the Great Smoky National Park and have proliferated.

 

[brin]

Get your 22-250 and a mouth squealer and see if you can get both.:laughing::thumbsup:

Most coyotes look alike. If they are siblings they could be twins I suppose. It wouldn't surprise me. I really don't know how often that happens.
Is that what your asking? weather they are twins or not?

Robert, I don't know if they were twins but they looked identical and may well have been the Red Wolves like Pine has posted about...he lives not far from me....thanks.

brin, If I recall you are not that far from where I am in GA (Rabun Co.)

Last summer we started hearing reports of 'Red Wolves' being in the area ...many had seen a pack of at least 4 wolves thinking they were coyotes until one was killed and positively identified...
...The district ranger said that they have worked their way south from the where they were released in the Great Smoky National Park and have proliferated.

Pine...that may well have been what I saw, what struck me is they did not run or walk like dogs do...they had a gait to them almost like a racking horse, that is why I called it a trot, and it was a purposeful trot...they were going somewhere - right down the road one following the other in lock step close behind...It worries me because our dog is outside a lot and he is a Brittany and about the same size as these critters were...45 or 50 lbs....Thanks for the picture...I just wonder why they were so bold to trot right down the country road like that...makes me think Rabbies...?? I just know I have never seen two identical domestic dogs anywhere except a litter of pups at a breeder...

 

[/pine]

that may well have been what I saw, what struck me is they did not run or walk like dogs do...they had a gait to them almost like a racking horse, that is why I called it a trot, and it was a purposeful trot.

This is the same thing I witnessed...there was one in the yard just off the porch and when I opened the slider to take a picture (cell phone was all I could grab and the picture did not come out)...but it did turn and run off like you said...I thought it ran more like a deer than a dog...definitely a "different" gait than a k9...

 

[RobertBrown]

brin, If I recall you are not that far from where I am in GA (Rabun Co.)

Last summer we started hearing reports of 'Red Wolves' being in the area ...many had seen a pack of at least 4 wolves thinking they were coyotes until one was killed and positively identified...
...The district ranger said that they have worked their way south from the where they were released in the Great Smoky National Park and have proliferated.

Don't shoot the wolf.

 

[westcliffe01]

Brin, your description is typical for coyotes. I have never seen them walk or stop yet on the sheep farm where I hunt them. They are always going at a steady trot with a definite purpose in mind.

They are very smart, so I will shoot if I have a very good chance of nailing them, else I leave them alone. They get educated very fast and change/adapt their behavior. So while they are bold and carefree you need to give them everything you got... If you spook them, they will first avoid the area you spooked them at, come back at night or move only from cover to cover until they know that the coast is clear.

I wounded 1 of a pair that was moving in for an attack on the sheep very similar to what you described. It was at about 250 yards. The one I shot at ran north onto a neighbors property where I do not have permission to follow. The male (I assume, from his behavior) ran south and stopped atop a hill at about 350 yards and my second shot must have showered him with dirt since I didn't hold high enough (14" drop on the 55gr Vmax bullet at that range with a 250 yd zero).

The female never returned, so I believe she died on the neighbors property. The male can be heard howling for a mate every now and then. He has never entered the "draw" where the female was shot during daylight hours again. I have seen him approaching the barn from the South right before dawn where there is several hundred yards of tangled undergrowth for him to retreat into, which is of course what he does. What has seemed to have the most impact with the male has been "marking" my territory "wolf style" when I do the daily boundary fence check. Since I started that, I have never seen his tracks again. Of course we have not had much snow, so it is also difficult to track, but he also has not been heard in 2 weeks. The farmer has not lost any more sheep, so he is not too concerned with my lack of coyote fur to show for my efforts...

 

[brin]

Thanks westcliffe01 - So it is very safe for me to believe at this point, as I do, that I did not see 2 identical domestic dogs....I will be on the watch from now on with my rifle at the ready....thanks for the input...that helps confirm my suspicion.

 

[/pine]

Don't shoot the wolf.

Before the reports of the Red Wolves being in the area...we were hearing lots of "coyote" sitings...we had a large increase of mallard ducks along the river at the same time and we suspected the ducks were attracting them...one neighbor watched a wolf climb out on the rocks in the river just waiting and licking his chops...
The sitings were so frequent I actually purchased a new .22 WMR rifle/scope...and was planning on baiting them (coyotes) in...However...after getting a very good,close look at the wolf...(a very handsome animal) nothing like the mangy appearance of most coyotes...I have decided not to shoot them.:thumbsup:

 

[brin]

Before the reports of the Red Wolves being in the area...we were hearing lots of "coyote" sitings...we had a large increase of mallard ducks along the river at the same time and we suspected the ducks were attracting them...one neighbor watched a wolf climb out on the rocks in the river just waiting and licking his chops...
The sitings were so frequent I actually purchased a new .22 WMR rifle/scope...and was planning on baiting them (coyotes) in...However...after getting a very good,close look at the wolf...(a very handsome animal) nothing like the mangy appearance of most coyotes...I have decided not to shoot them.:thumbsup:

Ok Pine...these must have been Red Wolves then because they were far from mangy...They were both handsome animals as you have said...they glistened..no collars by the way...so again, I am convinced they were not K -9's and since they were not the least bit mangy and sure not foxes...then Wolf it is....if they mess with my Dog...they will ride to glory..