Lead/lag ??? on Grand L series

[mojavedesert]

No, No, NO........... don't want to count gear teeth on a blown up case.
I'm no tire expert, but it seems like putting a 10-16.5 tire that is designed for a 8.25" rim on a 9.75" rim would result in LESS rolling circumference(and make the lag problem worse) than if it was just put on the correct rim to start with. WHY? would kubota do this? I wonder if kubota even makes an 8.25" rim for the 3830.
Anybody know if the stock ag tires for the 3830 run at the proper ratio or where can info on the various stock tire options be found.
I'm tempted to just go get the 12-16.5s but suspect the extra width/height will cause loader interference. Any advise?
EDIT:
What about the possibility of the stock r4s on the the rear and an r-1w on the front? I just found a Firestone radial r-1w (size 280/70r16) with a rolling circumference of 95" which is in the range according to formula. This tire takes a 16" rim x 9" wide. Does kubota make a 16" rim and Is there a problem with this tire combination?
Thanks
K

 

[ttowne66]

mojavedesert

The overall diameter on the 12-16.5's is 32.7in and the 10 -16.5 is 30.3. On my 4330 I have enough clearance as there is definately more than 1.2 inches of clearance there. I am not sure about the 3830.

 

[LRH]

Talk about incorrect rims; I have been unable locally to find on dealer's lots more than 1 or 2 tractors on a lot with 30-40 units having anything other than ind R4's, so being off work today a road trip was in order. Hit several dealers north of Atlanta, then headed on up into the mountains. Even in the mountains with a lot of smaller farms still around, it seems that the R4 bug has bit pretty hard with at least 70% of small chassis and about 50-55% of med chassis CUT's A 5030 cab with R1's had the 9.5-16's on 16x7 rims whereas Titan and Firestone call for a 16x8. The same 5030 had 14.9-26 rear and the tire had in brackets "use with 26x13 rim assembly" Kubota used a 26x12. Wheel was date coded 09-04. Asked one of the dealers about the 13.6x28 rears and was told that was an available option on the 5030. The 5030's with the 17.5-24 R4's uses a different center section than the 3830/4330/4630 to give about an 1.5 wider stance with the two wheel halves set up the the same. The outer rim portion is the same. The 5030 center is stamped like a flower petal/fan shape versus the others being stamped concave in about 3 different smooth steps. Saw several 3130 and3430's with the standard 12.4-24 R1's and they truly look lost under those fenders, even the 3830's look strange with the 14.9-24's My choice is the R1's but Kubota (and a few others) should supply an R1 in a size that fills up the fender a little more. I think this is part of the plan to get the public to purchase the extra cost R4's if they truly meet the need or not.
Another item: One JD/NH/Kubota had most of his Kubota's equipped with either a Kubota or BushHog brand front loader with the quick skid-steer attach system, but had the black John Deere buckets on all that I noticed. One 4030 had a Woods loader but I didn't pay attention to the bucket other than it was black.. 330 mile round trip through North GA and western North Carolina just riding and looking; had a good time looking and learning.

 

[slowzuki]

That is an interesting piece of info right there. I noticed after 6 months my two front rims aren't the same, much different centre section but same offset.

I will take a look at pictures and see what type I have on the rear.

Ken

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The 5030's with the 17.5-24 R4's uses a different center section than the 3830/4330/4630 to give about an 1.5 wider stance with the two wheel halves set up the the same. The outer rim portion is the same. The 5030 center is stamped like a flower petal/fan shape versus the others being stamped concave in about 3 different smooth steps. )</font>

 

[mojavedesert]

OK...My mistake(previous post) . I took another look a my front tire and rim set up----cleaned the wheels up and they are stamped Titan 8.25x16.5 which IS the correct rim for the 10-16.5 r4. I did not see the stamping before and used a tape measure to come up with the 9.75" width.
However, this still does not address the lag issue for these tractors. Is it an acceptable practice to mix tire types--- as in the r4s on the rear and (ag) r-1w radials on the front?
K

 

[LRH]

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However, this still does not address the lag issue for these tractors. Is it an acceptable practice to mix tire types--- as in the r4s on the rear and (ag) r-1w radials on the front?
K )</font>
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There is nothing wrong with mis-matched tread patterns front & rar as long as the rolling circ is taken into consideration. Whan I bought My New Holland back in '97 I ordered an extra set of wheels and put 6 ply truck tires with street tread on the front to prevent yard damage while mowing. These tires have done such a good job that I have never had to put the front R1's back on, they are hanging on the wall in My barn. I do avoid mud, as a matter of fact if it is muddy I don't go there. I hate mud. My only tire slippage problems are backing up some pine straw covered hills in My woods and if the tires spin even with the diff locked, a shift into 4WD will get it right up the hill with no tire spin even with the smooth tread. My next tractor will have R1's , but since I mostly mow I will prob replace fronts with a larger 16" wheels and use 2WD tractor tires or 6 ply truck tires or perhaps some 16.5" wheels with some R4's or some 16.5 truck tires. Don't worry about tread type matching front and rear, just plan for Your usage and terrain and making the rolling circ is correct.

 

[4x4sche]

I have an L5030 with 17.5L24 R4 rears and 10-16.5 NHS R4 fronts.

They are definately lagging. Before I go and buy new fronts can anyone confirm the front/rear gear ratio?, Different people have said either 1.5640 or 1.5460.......so which is right.

I would like 2%-3% lead. I am thinking that at off road truck tires may be a good choice.. see Interco TSX!

Thanks.

 

[mojavedesert]

After a non productive conversation with the Kubota rep, I did a little more research. I found this information on lead/lag on the Firestone website:

http://www.firestoneag.com/tiredata/info/info_lead.asp

I have the 17.5-24 r4 rear and 10-16.5 r4 front on my L3830.
I ran the field test as described in the document and logged 15.65 turns if the front tire(locked in 4wd) to 10 turns of the rear. Unlocked turns was 15.9 giving a lag of 1.57% by this method.
Using the the formula from Tractorsmart, I need either a smaller rear or larger front tire. It looks like the Firestone 420 70-24 (136" R.C) r4 rear tire used on the 3130 & 3430 will provide a lead of 3.5% which seems to be nearly ideal.
I initially looked at using a larger front tire like the 12-16.5 mentioned by ttowne66, but on the 3830 these won't work due to clearance with the loader frame. I looked at a 5030 on the dealer lot and there seemed to be plenty of clearance for the larger front. This may also be the case with the 4330 and 4630. Conclusions: 5030(and possibly 4630,4330) can go with the larger front tire while the 3830 will need to use the smaller rear mentioned above. My dealer has aggreed to exchange my 17.5-24's for the 420 70-24's so I feel lucky to have found this information and probably saved some grief and money. Thanks to all for the input and prior research.
K

 

[LRH]

The dealer swap will work and be the least expensive; although if it were me I would rather keep the taller, slightly wider rears. I don'know what type of front tires are required for your work but the 16x7 front rims from a 5030 R1 setup will handle a few sizes of truck type tires that are tall enough to work and yet be narrow enough to clear loader arms/brackets. Tires with approx 650 revs per mile are 97.5 RC. A LT235/85-16 or a 255/75-16 comes in load range D or E. A 33/12.50-16.5 will work on the stock 16.5 x 8.25 rim and is a little narrower than the R4 tractor tire, and the flexible sidewall allows it to work on a 8.25 rim. This tire size may still be a little wide. Years ago I remember seeing a 33/10.50-16.5 size that would be perfect. This may all be a moot point as You may need the maximum traction of R1's or close to as good R4's, and may not can even consider truck type tires. Another factor is although load range D&E tires have a tough but flexible sidewall; a sharp rock in some situations might ruin the tire and your day.

 

[texasjohn]

Hmm.. Y'all got me to wondering about my tires so I checked.
5030GL, FEL and Cab.
Front tires: Titan 4123c8 (R4's), 10-16.5, rim=16.5X8.25, rolling circ=90.
Rear tires: Firestone 17.5L-24 (R4's), rim= titan 24XW15L, RC=145
front/rear drive ratio used: 1.5640
Tractorsmart slippage formula = 90*1.5640/145=.9708
Lead = (.9708-1)*100=-2.9% which means it is lagging= VERY NOT GOOD.
DRAT /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Just another input .. and validates my operational practice of not running 4WD unless very slippery or very loaded conditions.