Leaning Fence Post Remediation

[Argonne]

I have wooden corner and end posts all over my property that are leaning. The fences were perfect when I bought this place several years ago but apparently the installation was lacking for our expansive soil, and every post under any side stress is leaning. I want to fix this problem without disconnecting the wire and spreading my problems down the line.

The solution I am contemplating is to disconnect just the bottom wire and dig out around the posts with the backhoe except the side with the tension, and once I have done that, tilt the post back vertical, re-tensioning the entire fence line in the process, and then pour concrete into the hole. I can install temporary guy wires to hold the tension until the concrete is cured. I'm also considering driving some big nails or screws into the post below ground level to give the concrete something to hang on to since the post will only have concrete on 3 sides (i.e., not the tension side).

Has anyone done something like this? If so, how did it work out? Other ideas?

 

[Diggin It]

Not knowing the length or area we're talking about, I've been able to do similar on small wooden fences without digging. Rigged up a winch to pull the top of the post to plumb, then set rocks on the weak side and drove them down with a sledge.

 

[dragoneggs]

How many posts? Sounds to me that you may be fighting this for years as more of them lean over time. Hope that isn't the case but maybe re-doing the whole fence might be the right way. I am sure you don't need that advice though. :stirthepot:

 

[Argonne]

Not knowing the length or area we're talking about, I've been able to do similar on small wooden fences without digging. Rigged up a winch to pull the top of the post to plumb, then set rocks on the weak side and drove them down with a sledge.

I actually did that at a friends house two weeks with his front gate post. It's only been a couple of weeks but it HAS been raining constantly and it's still ok, hmmm. Thanks for the idea.

 

[Argonne]

How many posts? Sounds to me that you may be fighting this for years as more of them lean over time. Hope that isn't the case but maybe re-doing the whole fence might be the right way. I am sure you don't need that advice though. :stirthepot:

Every friggin post with side tension is leaning, probably a dozen. Apparently they used no concrete. None of our 3 pasture gates latch. The line posts are fine, so I think once I fix this I should be good for years.

 

[Diggin It]

Concrete won't really help in that kind of situation as far as I know. Concrete will help with many situations where you're dealing with up or down forces like a deck or a wooden fence where everything is tied together with more wood. In a corner post pulled sideways by wire, I've seen the concrete lean too. Think power lines ... no concrete around those poles.

 

[wagne223]

Are the corners braced or just a single post?
A single post will not withstand side tension for long.

 

[wagne223]

One type.....note the diagonal tension wire also.

 

[Diggin It]

^^ True. Usually what I see on wire fences is three posts at each corner; a larger corner post, then one smaller line post in each direction spaced about 8 or 10 feet from the corner. Then a diagonal post from the top of the corner to the bottom of each line post.

 

[wagne223]

^^ True. Usually what I see on wire fences is three posts at each corner; a larger corner post, then one smaller line post in each direction spaced about 8 or 10 feet from the corner. Then a diagonal post from the top of the corner to the bottom of each line post.

Exactly, there are several ways to do it, and you can use wood diagonal supports or wire.

The key is having 2 parallel posts that support each other in each direction of pull. So for a 90 degree corner, 3 posts as you describe work perfectly.

 

[Argonne]

Are the corners braced or just a single post?
A single post will not withstand side tension for long.

All are doubled and braced. The entire assembly tilts up out of the ground, and now that I think about it, the clay has probably filled in under the extracting corner posts which means I will need to dig deep enough to expose the post bottom or at least deep enough to give the clay under the post someplace to displace to when I pull it vertical.

 

[Argonne]

This stuff might work better than concrete SecureSet ...or not, my backhoe will make big holes, better filled with cheap concrete maybe.

 

[Diggin It]

All are doubled and braced. The entire assembly tilts up out of the ground, ...

Then you may have a bigger issue. Maybe the wire was pulled too tight? Maybe tensioned in hot weather and cold weather contraction is at fault? Does it get cold enough long enough for frost to heave the ground? I know it says TX, but parts of TX can get mighty cold at times.

 

[wagne223]

All are doubled and braced. The entire assembly tilts up out of the ground, and now that I think about it, the clay has probably filled in under the extracting corner posts which means I will need to dig deep enough to expose the post bottom or at least deep enough to give the clay under the post someplace to displace to when I pull it vertical.

In that case, a few hundred lbs of concrete on the corner post will help.

As Diggin says though, check the tension on the wire.

Use regular concrete. That foam stuff is only good if you dont need the weight of concrete.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I've had good luck using a come-along to pull a leaning post plumb and then bracing it.

A braced corner or end will tend to want to rotate toward the direction of pull, with the inner post being pushed down and the outer post being pulled up. If the outer post doesn't have enough resistance to lift it will rise out of the ground. That is tricky to fix, you need to take the tension off of the brace, reset the brace and then put the fence back on. Sometimes you can push a post that has risen back down, but often you need to take it out and dig down.

Concrete is good for giving the post more resistance to lift. You want to put something into the post to bind it to the concrete, a piece of rebar in a hole drilled through the post is good. Otherwise the post can just pull out of the concrete.

 

[EddieWalker]

I see that you are in Paris TX. Do you have that extremely expansive, black clay there? Do the power poles along the roads all lean over to the side?

There are some places where the dirt just moves so much that you have to go to extremes to deal with it. Six feet down for fence posts. You cannot use wire to tension your corners or H braces, it has to be something solid like pipe.

Every winter, the ground gets saturated by all the rain. Then it gets cold and the ground freezes. This is what destroys foundations. The movement of the soil is huge because it holds so much moisture in it just like an ice cube tray in the freezer and the ice cubes pop out of the tray. The frozen ground pushes the posts out of the ground, or moves them around inside the ground if the post isn't far enough below the freeze line to withstand this movement. Then if the Spring, when the soil thaws out, and the ground is nasty mud, everything starts to move. You rarely see it when the freeze does the damage, you just see it when the soil releases the hold it had on it as it melts.

Lots of people will not even use wood posts for fences because it moves so much. 3 inch steel pipe that is welded together, and so far into the ground that nothing can move it.

If you have nice red clay like I do here in Tyler, then you need to dig out around your posts by hand. Do not use the backhoe. That will just loose up more soil then you want to deal with. Get the clam shells out, buy or rent a small jackhammer. I use a SDS Max with a spade digging bit in it. You want to keep the sides of the hold in tact and solid. Then pour your concrete and use metal or wood for your bracing.

 

[Argonne]

I see that you are in Paris TX. Do you have that extremely expansive, black clay there?

Yea Eddie, I'm on the infamous "blackland". The soil on my place is "Crockett Loam". It's about 20% expansive and goes down over 50 inches without any significant change. When people build houses here they put pilings down 30 feet in an attempt to stabilize the foundation. A guy that just built 1/2 mile from here has 18 pilings for a 1700 sq/ft house. I could hear the concrete trucks dumping for 2 days building his foundation. On the bright side, it grows great grass (for Texas).

Kinda sounds like I'm screwed and might have to permanently guy the corners, although that makes mowing the ditches annoying. For the gate posts I still don't see an alternative to using hundreds of pounds of concrete on the end posts, but fortunately there are only 3 of those to deal with. Thanks for the advice!

 

[bcp]

Maybe brace your corner brace posts and gate posts like this. Here is a screenshot of the partly finished installation.



Bruce

 

[kenmac]

I installed some corner post today. I use 6x6x8' treated with about 3'ft in the ground. I don't wire brace. I install a short 4x4x4' post behind the 6x6x8 then install a 4x4x8' diagonal brace from the 4x4x4' to the 6x6x8' .
I pull the barbed wire as tight as I can get it with a hand held come along, and have never had an issue.

Only way I would know to make repairs would be to install a large post down the line. staple the wire to that. then repaid your corners. It should cause any issues with your wire doing this.

All You'll will just have to stretch the short section that you take down to repair your corner post

something like this

 

[Aquamoose]

In some parts of the country, I’ve seen some caged rocks that anchor the corners, basically weights that does the job without driving/setting posts in the ground.