Lenar Tractor problems

JohnS · May 24, 2004

I don't understand about the dealer and his insurance problem, but I am not up on liability insurance and what things you can agree to, to lower premiums. Its too bad, since you were willing to travel, that Berry couldn't work something out with this dealer.

Am I to understand, that Lenar doesn't have a technical rep that helps its dealers solve problems? They must/should have someone that is more capable than just ordering parts. It seems that with some digital pictures and explaination, something could be done.

Given you can't find anyone that will honor the FailSafe warrantee, can you find a diesel mechanic that will give you a diagnosis? or just a friend that has good engine mechanical skills. They should at least be able to tell if it is a minor or major problem.

I hope your tractor issues do get resolved and you can be on your way and actually using your tractor. Your posts should be a warning to others. A new, non-established dealer can be high risk, given there is no other means of support. Many chinese tractor owners, are mechanicly inclined, and can do all or most repairs. But for people who need and expect full dealer/network support, then it pays to do all the homework.

Soundguy · May 25, 2004

I wonder if there is any chance he can contact the mechanic fo rthe original owner.. and perhaps pay him to install the parts. Given that the dealer went out of business.. the mechanic may want some work on the side.

I almost did something like this for my grey yanmar. Back when I got it I was 'green', and thought JD might be a -good- place to get parts or service for it.. I wisened up quite a bit after that.. though, on my way out a JD mechanic did pull me aside and told me to call him 'after work' as he was familiar with the yanmar engines in the JD compacts.. even if it wasn't an exact part for part engine to the domestic units.. etc.

Soundguy

NIXON · May 25, 2004

Patrick . As Durbob pointed out in an earlier post , I was both harsh,and hasty in my judgement . For that I offer my apology .
Do you have a state run consumer affairs bureau ? They may be able to help you get some relief from your problems concerning the lack of response from Lenar .
As a last resort ,you might cosider a lawyer . But then things could get very ugly . But then considering what you've gone through , Ugly might be an improvement . I hope you get things sorted out . And again , I apologize for my earlier comments . John

hick11h1369 · May 25, 2004

Hello again, hey Nixon, your cool, speak your mind, everyone here has been alot of help in that some believe that I should fix the problems myself, some say get a lawyer, and some say cool down and try to work it out. Well, I cant say that I am the smartest guy out there, I know the easiest solution is to just fix the machine suck up my losses and drive on, but like I said, I am not the smartest guy out there and I dont get scared of lawyers at all, prosecuters, now they scare me, lawyers dont, why????? Because you only need a lawyer if you are trying to hide something, the problems I have had are all documented, four different serial numbers were given to the bank!!!!! Why, because all four tractors were lemons!!!! I have contacted the two biggest news stations in my area, Toledo 11 and Detroit 4, Toledo seems to be willing to do a story on a company that does not stand behind the product and endorses its dealers to be able to refuse service for tractors that they did not sell even though it is the same brand. I am planning trips to Indiana, Ky, Tn to the lenar dealers there, and I am going to sit outside, down the road or wherever with this oil soaked blue lemon on a trailer. I will educate the people that the value of the tractor is after the sale, not in the sale itself, I have the time, they have called my bluff, I am on the road now. This summer will be fun, Lenar dealers and Taskmaster dealers, I wish you luck!!!!

Durbob · May 25, 2004

I say go for it Patrick. Ben has always touted about Lenars having dealer support while the Jinmas didn't. Sounds like that's not true when a dealer can't back the product whether he sold it or not. Imagine if car dealers or dealers of anything else were like that. I say take that Lenar all across the country.

shvl73 · May 25, 2004

The problem I see is another dealer gets dumped on for a problem that belongs at Mazama Products door. If I were a dealer & someone hauled his tractor hundreds of miles to get a problem repaired, I guess I would try to help & work on it but, you know their not getting compensated for their labor from the distibutor & that's who is ultimately responsible. Ben Hime from Mazama has posted on other boards & his attitude is nothing short of outrageous. I think he's the rep for Lenar stateside but, rather than being in sales, he's more like the anti-sale. He & his company are the best reason NEVER to consider any of the products they represent.
It's kind of like the old joke "she doesn't need birth control, she's got her personality for that."

usedcarz · May 25, 2004

i can really feel for this fellow with all these problems, but as a seller/dealer, i also feel for the poor guy that went out of business screwing with these tractors. he must have had good intentions, i mean the guy DID bring out 4 tractors! but if the product was junk from the get-go, he didn't have a chance. and it sure sounds like dealer support wasn't part of the program! sure would like to hear from him on his experience with lenar /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

bluechip · May 25, 2004

It is common practice for Chinese tractors to be serviced only by the selling dealer. Why should a dealer fix a tractor bought somewhere else for free? The reason other brands do, is because the pricing structure is such that they get paid to do it. With Chinese tractors, the factory ships them here with parts warranty. If a distributor or dealer chooses to add labor coverage, it is on his own nickel (although it is usually added to the price). Homiers FArm Pro is one of very few brands I know of that support the labor done by thier dealers. It is the exception, not the norm.

Your particular dealer had a contract with Lenar (and with you) to provide labor for warranty service. Did he go bankurpt? just quitting does not stop your obligations.

Now you are on the warpath, and I don't blame you one bit for being upset at the lack of support this tractor has had in spite of it oft touted "US presence". so now your going on the road, even to Tennessee. Seems awhile back, Tennessee was to far to go to get help, (Wasn't it the Coopers who offered to help you way back at the beginning?), but now it is close enough to go only to damage a party that is essencially innocent in this whole affair? What is really ironic is that I am almost certain that the Coopers had a program as a Lenar regional distriubtor to back thier dealers warranty, (Michigan was not part of their area).

All Lenar dealers are independent businessmen, they have PAID Mazama up front for thier inventory. I just wish you would think about who you are poising to strike against.

Guilt by association? There are good dealers out there who are living up to their obligation to service the tractors they sell. Don't put everyone the same boat... then sink it.

I am only suggesting you carefully examine your warranty, with a lawyer if necessary, and find out where you stand. Then persue the responsible party(s) as indicated.

Now lest this sound like I have taken Mazamas side, that is not the case. I don't really want to take a side in this one, there is no winner. I do think that they, or one of their new regional distributors, could have done a heck of a lot better job at mitigating this situation for Patrick and for Lenar dealers nationwide. I venture to say that several tens of thousand of dollars of negative publicity has already been allowed to happen. I am just dissappointed that those hurt most immediatly are the INDEPENDENT Lenar dealers. I am no longer one (but still servicing the tractors we sold) having moved on to other products, In fact Lenar is a competitor and I possibly stand to benefit from their troubles, but I have friends who are Lenar dealers, and I'm sure they are just as upset about this whole affair as Patrick,and frankly have a lot more to lose in all this.

Patrick, all I suggest is to carefully define your objective, repair or revenge, and if it is pure revenge, than please aim well before you pull the trigger. (this is a figure of speech only, I am certianly not advocating violence of any kind!).

I for one would still like to see a happy ending to this saga. It seems less likely by the day however...

shvl73 · May 25, 2004

I'll bet that would be an interesting story.

bluechip · May 25, 2004

It seems to me the dealer was out of his element. why would anyone replace a tractor rather than just fix it? a weedeater or chainsaw maybe but a whole tractor?. As I recall the first tractor had a knock, could have been an injector miss, or maybe a bearing. easier to fix than replace a tractor. Tractor 2 was a hydraulic hose as I recall, maybe two, it is unclear whether these were loader or tractor hoses, not many hoses on the tractor. Three broke because of an improper loader design, (one and two would likely have broke if run longer). That leaves us with 4, leaks oil and had trouble geting into 4 wd (think Patrick fixed that one) and I'm not sure what else. Patrick's description makes is sound like a pourous casting in the engine block, I havn't seen that but suppose it is possible that could be the case, if so need a new engine.

Tell you what. somebody has to do it. If Mazama will send me an engine and Patrick will bring me his tractor, we'll put it in for him, if Failsafe won't pay us to do it, then I'll eat the labor. Its time this got settled. I would have hoped a Lenar dealer a little closer would come up with something but the offer is on the table. Ben, Patrick, what do you say?
If someone closer wants to match this deal, save Patrick some driving, you are welcome to it. Lets get this over with.

Chip Uren
ARTRAC Co, LLC
Knoxville Arkansas

hick11h1369 · May 26, 2004

Hello, all of you are right, I should hold Mazama and Ben and part of me wants to hold my dealer that is out of business responsible. I am a blue collared, American and a vet. I would have been happy if I could have just gotten this thing fixed when I started all of this. I guess reality is setting in on me, see, the tractor is still under the manufactures warranty, I have that Failsafe that backs that up, or is supposed to. Getting it fixed should have been easy, even if I had to drive 5 hours. My feelings for my dealer is he took a venture into selling Lenars, almost talked me into becoming a dealer for lower Michigan, but I am one customer that had trouble with the tractor and it cost him 4 of them, granted one of the problems was his mistake, but the hydraulic lines, the tractor was blowing the main hyd line because of a fault with the tph. Regardless, if I had this much trouble, I have to wonder who else he sold to had this much trouble, did he find himself doing to much repair, and not enough sales??? Do I really want to force him to work on a tractor that he wants nothing more to do with??? With the publicity that this has gotten, is there a lenar dealer that would fix it without resentment. I do not feel that I am asking for something that I do not deserve, but you are right, the dealers out there trying to take care of their customers, do they deserve to be targeted????? They are probably just like me, trying to make a living, but what happens if they go out of business or retire, we all deserve to retire someday, who will work on the tractors that they have sold???? I think the people should know this policy of (Not my tractor, not my problem). Chip, you are one hell of a guy and I could not just let you take a hit in your pocket to fix Mazamas mistake. I am not that type of guy, I am sure if I had you fix it, I would compensate you in some way for it. BUT WHY CANT MAZAMA AND LENAR TAKE THE STAND. I did hear this rumor from a FEL dealer that just came back from OR. He drove by the Hqs of Mazama, and he has heard that the Lenar is not passing the EPA regulations and probably wont be imported anymore!!!!!! That is why Mazama is pushing the Taskmaster so hard!!!!! SO Lenar Dealers, if this is true, what happens to parts and suport, and are you willing to just change brands if this happens???? This really is not looking good for anybody. I hope some light gets shed on this new finding as well.

shvl73 · May 26, 2004

If Mazama Products had a clue, they would have offered to repair the tractor to customer satisfaction even if it involved having it shipped to the next closest dealer or bought it back. The bad PR has got to be costing them mucho $ . Seems it would be hard to build up a brand that they advertise as one of the greatest compacts out of China with this mess just going on & on. Many people have the opinion that Chinese made products are of inferior quality & allowing this to carry on isn't changing that.

JohnS · May 26, 2004

( I did hear this rumor from a FEL dealer that just came back from OR. He drove by the Hqs of Mazama, and he has heard that the Lenar is not passing the EPA regulations and probably wont be imported anymore!!!!!! ) 

That is interesting, since that is one of the main things they were touting as a advantage. Ie tractor made by same company as the engine. EPA approval immenent, but do not see it on their website now.

I did see this, which this page was updated on May 13, 04:
( Compare and you decide:
Lenar Tractors:
Jiangling Tractors builds the the Lenar tractor in a new modern factory that used Ford Motor Co. quality control procedures. Lenar tractors have the support of the Jiangling Motors Co., Group with asset of over 7 billion. Lenar tractor distributors must prove financial ability to support the tractors after the sale. Lenar Equipment Llc. maintains a national parts distribution warehouse. Lenar tractors are presently covered by a full 2 year parts warranty issued by the manufacturer and labor warranties are required to be provided by the dealer/seller.
)

This was also there, which has been on Taskmaster's site as well:
( Typical Chinese Tractor (Jinma, Shenniu, Taishan, etc.):
Your typical Chinese tractor is made in a 40 to 50 year old factory using methods long ago found not to be dependable, The tractors have very limited assembly quality control, no check lists and no finished tractor testing. For these reasons the typical Chinese tractor has extremely high failure rates. The typical Chinese tractor factory will sell to anyone that has the money for a container of tractors. These factories have no concern for the client, US law or even for product quality control as they see this a being the sole responsibility of the importer. The factory has no risk as they are paid before the tractors leave the factory so there is no reason to assist when there is a problem, and there will be. Most of these tractors are being sold by dreamers out of their garage who may or may not be knowledgeable on tractors. They normally have no spare parts or only limit spare parts and since the factory is not represented the only warranty and support available is from the person selling the tractor.
)
I guess they never heard about Jinma building a new modern factory a couple of years ago! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

PS: A google search of Lenar + tractor, locates this thread at the top of the list!
Google Lenar + Tractor

Opps! editing messed up all the fonts and colors, and can't seem to get it back!!

FarmNut · May 26, 2004

The main point in support of Patrick's position, as I see it, is that Lenar has tried to position itself as a different breed of Chinese tractor with ties to Ford quality controls and a dealer network of support. Patrick's experience indicates that may be a lot of marketing baloney. I understand your point of not wanting another dealer to suffer because of Lenar's national distributor's lack of response to this issue, but the fact remains that Lenar has tried to position itself as a nationwide, dealer supported, Chinese brand of tractor, whether or not that is how it really works. You mention the Coopers, and I am surprised that they have kept out of this discussion because they have a lot invested in protecting Lenar's reputation. They are an advertiser on this Forum and the last time I drove by their place they had a lot of new inventory on the lot. They are good folks and I'd hate to see them harmed by this. I'm surprised that they have no comment since Patrick has clearly been in contact with them and they must be aware of this thread.

FarmNut

Tractors4u · May 27, 2004

I am a Chinese tractor outsider looking in so maybe someone like JohnS can educate me. It appears that anyone willing to import them can import Jinmas and call them RuralKing, EmeryBuilt, FarmPro or whatever. FarmPro backed by Homier having the widest reaching warranty and service plan. Lenar tractors are brought in by Mazama only and distributed to their dealers. There set up most closely resembles what we are accustomed to with cars, motorcycles, and tractors. One would think that is you by a Lenar that the Lenar corporate headquarters would at least take care of you if one of their dealers went belly up. We just bought a new Ford F150. If Long Lewis Ford goes out of business, I know that I can take that truck to another Ford dealer for warranty work. I know if I buy a Jinma from an independent importer that he is my sole source for warranty work, but the Lenar system seems to be a little misleading.

hick11h1369 · May 27, 2004

Hello again, I hate to make a mistake but apparently I have, that mistake was making the statement that my ex dealer is selling Kama's. I must have gotten my wires crossed. Jim Travioli is not selling anything, he is completely out of business. He contacted me to set me straight on that. I said it before and I will say it again, he did what he could to help me and honor his obligations with this tractor. But I think if the truth be told, this tractor, or this brand of tractor put him out of business. Jim, I am sorry for the mistake.

hick11h1369 · May 27, 2004

Ps. The guy from RI that called me, please leave your number, I will call you back. I have free long distance, and I have something to tell you. Thanks
Patrick

JohnS · May 27, 2004

Yes, you have it right. I don't agree with Lenar mkting, but apparently how their contracts are written, it is the dealers responsibility for labor. I understand that many people could/would assume it would be like car dealerships. But if support was going to be an issue for this buyer, a number of warning signs were there. Lenar has only been around a couple of years. Very limited number of dealers. His next dealer is in another state. So even if they would honor it, it he would be significantly impacted to take it to another state. From his posts, he initially refused to take it out of state, wanted them to come there. Then he was willing when he found out that the dealer in Indiana would not work on it and not required to. Lenar is taking a significant hit on this, and maybe it will be enough for them to change their policies. If the policy is changed, I doubt he is going to be happy with taking the tractor to Indiana, anyway.

I think the issue is the person wants to get the tractor taken back and Lenar pay off his loan. He is not really interested in getting it fixed. His ex-dealer is selling another chinese tractor brand, probably as unsupported as the Lenars he sold. If he wants it repaired, he should take it to his ex-dealer, who should perform the work under the FailSafe warrantee, and Lenar will supply the parts. If his dealer services him, there is no issue.

IMHO, this has become just tactics to get his tractor bought back. The bad publicity is just being used to force a desired outcome.

JohnS · May 27, 2004

Well, it keeps a changing! I can't keep up anymore. Good luck with your quest.

PS: RI? Hmmm, I know of at least one person there, that is not a big fan of Roger! If it is who I think, he will provide you allot of insight into who you are dealing with.

hick11h1369 · May 27, 2004

John, I listed in my earlier post that I had made the mistake of saying that my ex dealer is selling another tractor. I WAS WRONG, he is totally out of business and in worse shape than what I am in. I AM UPSET WITH THIS TRACTOR BECAUSE OF THE COMPANY IN THAT IF THEY WOULD HAVE WORKED WITH ME TO FIX IT, I WOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPY. I GOT FED UP WITH THE OIL LEAKING AND DECIDED THAT I WOULD GO TO INDIANA AND JUST HAVE IT FIXED, IT WOULD HAVE MADE ME HAPPY, AND MY WIFE HAPPY, BUT WHEN I CALLED BEFORE I LEFT TO GO DOWN THERE, THAT IS WHEN I GOT HIT WITH 'NOT MY TRACTOR, NOT MY PROBLEM' . IN CONFIRMING THIS WITH LENAR THEMSELVES, I SAW THAT I AM NOW STUCK AND STUCK HARD, I WOULD HAVE NEVER EVER BOUGHT THIS KNOWING THAT THERE WAS NO SUPPORT. THE SIGNS YOU SAY WERE THERE WERE OBSCURED BY A FAIL SAFE WARRANTY AND LENARS "COMMITMENT TO CUSTOMER SATISFACTION". IN WAYS YOU HAVE BACKED ME, NOW I REALLY FEEL LIKE YOU ARE AGAINST ME. CAN I ASK IF YOU OWN A DEALERSHIP THAT COULD BE HURT BY THIS???? WOULD YOU ALLOW YOUR BEST FREIND TO PURCHASE A LENAR??? WOULD YOU SELL OR DO YOU SELL LENARS? IF YOU ANSWER NO TO ANY OF THE LATTER QUESTIONS, THEN ANSWER WHY THEY SHOULD BE SOLD PERIOD IF IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD BUY/SELL OR ALLOW SOMEONE ELSE TO BUY?????