Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

   / Let's talk flail mowers #7,351  
It looks like a Canadian importer of made-in-China stuff to me. I've seen a couple reviews of some of their other products on amazon.ca and they look to be purveyors of junk, but I'm still curious about this flail in particular since products vary quite a bit
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #7,352  
This is really interesting and I appreciate all the time you are taking to upload pictures and document the restoration process but I have a question. You spent $250 to purchase this old, worn out Mott flail mower plus parts which you are now up to $2000. This does not include all the time in research and labor you are having to put into this. At this point the flail is needing MAJOR SURGERY to bring it back to working condition. I am not sure how valuable your time is but I would guess if you are a machinist that would come out to be about $20 an hour at entry level and based on some of the things you are saying you sound like you are at a senior level or a journeyman in your trade so you have to be making somewhere around at least $60-100K a year. For another $2000 more you could purchase a brand new flail mower that would be superior in design and quality to the old Mott flail mower and be done with it. So why are you going to all the trouble to do this?
Well, you raise some good points.

The goal was to get up and running with a flail, without breaking the bank. No doubt the Mott is old, but it isn't obsolete, and there's nothing wrong with the quality. Quite to the contrary, I imagine the components, and steel are probably far higher quality than can be found on the China imports. Obviously, I haven't run any of those imports, but I have worked with plenty of other China manufactured, price point equipment. The consistency of quality is all over the place, so I really didn't feel like playing that game. I did seriously consider some of the other import options like the Caroni. I would have been comfortable with their quality. Those prices are however far higher than what I have in this unit. Yes, I would have already been cutting grass with it, but that wasn't a significant issue for me. I didn't bother pricing a new Alamo SHD, which is basically what I'll end up with when I'm done. Does anyone feel the China units could go on DOT highway tractor and survive for long? There's a reason the overwhelming majority of that gear is Alamo, at least around the highways, and interstates I run.

With regard to the value of my time, that's not something I get too concerned about with a project like this. That's not to say you're wrong on that point. I am very often much happier buying a solution to an issue than pouring labor on it. In this case, I enjoy this kind of work. I am fortunate in that I work in R&D at my company, so I have access to the CNC. I also have time during which I simply don't have anything that needs my attention at work, or when the CNC is running a long cycle. So I can work on my project, or I can sit around and surf the web, or I work on coworker's projects. It's a strange place to work... However, I still wouldn't do it if I didn't really enjoy it.

Ideally, I wouldn't have had to spend quite as much time welding on the Mott's cuttershaft. I really couldn't see the extent of that during inspection. Bearings are simply a wear item, and would have been replaced on any used mower I bought most likely. Blades too are wear items, and might, or might not have been replaced, depending on condition. I absolutely could have run with the blades that came on it for quite some time. Because I was missing a few, I decided to do them all. The old blades are in a bucket, and I'll check them out. They'll likely be fine as spares, along with the old pins. I shouldn't have to buy another blade or pin for a long long time.

I also really despise the race to the bottom we have all engaged in. We buy the cheapest things we can find, and then we're all pissed that they fail comparatively quickly. I don't want to have to buy a different machine in 10 years when I can't get a part. I'm fortunate that I can make things like the nut guard that would have condemned the machine for some (it really didn't need to be an exact duplicate, but again, I could, so did). I had already drawn up, and priced out the roller if that wasn't available.

That's not to say I'm a fossil, or afraid of technology, and progress. But think about it, what is different between a brand new flail, and what I'm going to have in terms of functionality. The Mott has already survived at least 50 years. The wear components are going to be new. The only thing that would be nicer would be if I stripped it, and gave it a nice paint job... Worst case is I manage to destroy the Mott in 5 or 10 years, and then I'd be out less than if I had got a China unit, that I'd possibly have to replace in that time frame anyway... Somehow I don't see that happening.

All this said, I'm not throwing shade at anyone that buys new, be that import, or not. We all need to cut grass apparently, and we've all decided that the flail is the way to go. If I had a different set of circumstances, like my existing equipment just died, I would likely have just bought new. I wouldn't have had the luxury to spend the time searching, and then rehabing this one... If I had hit the lottery, I'd have a new Alamo SHD... (and probably a nice new cab tractor to go with it)

🍻
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #7,353  
I would have repaired it too. The European flails are far superior to any others on the market IMHO. I looked extensively before I ended up finding mine sitting right on the JD dealer lot. Had I not found it I would have bought an old one and restored it.

How are you going to balance the drum?
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #7,354  
I'll likely sit it on some bearings and see how goofy it is after cleaning it up. If it's bad, I might send it out for balancing. I'm hoping it isn't, but we'll see. I'm sure that would cost more than I really want.
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #7,355  
I would think a drive shaft shop could balance it easily.
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #7,356  
Well, you raise some good points.

The goal was to get up and running with a flail, without breaking the bank. No doubt the Mott is old, but it isn't obsolete, and there's nothing wrong with the quality. Quite to the contrary, I imagine the components, and steel are probably far higher quality than can be found on the China imports. Obviously, I haven't run any of those imports, but I have worked with plenty of other China manufactured, price point equipment. The consistency of quality is all over the place, so I really didn't feel like playing that game. I did seriously consider some of the other import options like the Caroni. I would have been comfortable with their quality. Those prices are however far higher than what I have in this unit. Yes, I would have already been cutting grass with it, but that wasn't a significant issue for me. I didn't bother pricing a new Alamo SHD, which is basically what I'll end up with when I'm done. Does anyone feel the China units could go on DOT highway tractor and survive for long? There's a reason the overwhelming majority of that gear is Alamo, at least around the highways, and interstates I run.

With regard to the value of my time, that's not something I get too concerned about with a project like this. That's not to say you're wrong on that point. I am very often much happier buying a solution to an issue than pouring labor on it. In this case, I enjoy this kind of work. I am fortunate in that I work in R&D at my company, so I have access to the CNC. I also have time during which I simply don't have anything that needs my attention at work, or when the CNC is running a long cycle. So I can work on my project, or I can sit around and surf the web, or I work on coworker's projects. It's a strange place to work... However, I still wouldn't do it if I didn't really enjoy it.

Ideally, I wouldn't have had to spend quite as much time welding on the Mott's cuttershaft. I really couldn't see the extent of that during inspection. Bearings are simply a wear item, and would have been replaced on any used mower I bought most likely. Blades too are wear items, and might, or might not have been replaced, depending on condition. I absolutely could have run with the blades that came on it for quite some time. Because I was missing a few, I decided to do them all. The old blades are in a bucket, and I'll check them out. They'll likely be fine as spares, along with the old pins. I shouldn't have to buy another blade or pin for a long long time.

I also really despise the race to the bottom we have all engaged in. We buy the cheapest things we can find, and then we're all pissed that they fail comparatively quickly. I don't want to have to buy a different machine in 10 years when I can't get a part. I'm fortunate that I can make things like the nut guard that would have condemned the machine for some (it really didn't need to be an exact duplicate, but again, I could, so did). I had already drawn up, and priced out the roller if that wasn't available.

That's not to say I'm a fossil, or afraid of technology, and progress. But think about it, what is different between a brand new flail, and what I'm going to have in terms of functionality. The Mott has already survived at least 50 years. The wear components are going to be new. The only thing that would be nicer would be if I stripped it, and gave it a nice paint job... Worst case is I manage to destroy the Mott in 5 or 10 years, and then I'd be out less than if I had got a China unit, that I'd possibly have to replace in that time frame anyway... Somehow I don't see that happening.

All this said, I'm not throwing shade at anyone that buys new, be that import, or not. We all need to cut grass apparently, and we've all decided that the flail is the way to go. If I had a different set of circumstances, like my existing equipment just died, I would likely have just bought new. I wouldn't have had the luxury to spend the time searching, and then rehabing this one... If I had hit the lottery, I'd have a new Alamo SHD... (and probably a nice new cab tractor to go with it)

🍻
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I can understand if you like doing this sort of thing and I know a lot of guys out there do. I personally am not one that does lol. I avoid turning wrenches at all cost unless it's just basic maintenance.

When I was mentioning buying a brand new flail I was not referring to Chinese flails. I too have no interest in buying that cheap ass crap. I was thinking along the lines of Befco, Vrisimo, John Deere, Caroni etc,. With that said, I am certainly not knocking Mott/Alamo. That's the pioneer of the flail mower and it will always get my respect. I personally would not have chosen that design for what I am doing but that's just me and to each his own.

I also can't argue with you about the cost of a new Alamo Flail mower, they're $7000 bucks 🤑🤑🤑 It's clear they are meant for people who aren't spending their own money. They can charge stupid prices like that and get away with it when it's tax payer money.

I wish you the best in your restoration journey. I know many will find it useful and interesting and maybe even inspiring. As Leon often says, "Welcome to flail mower nation!" 🍻
 
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   / Let's talk flail mowers #7,357  
I would have repaired it too. The European flails are far superior to any others on the market IMHO. I looked extensively before I ended up finding mine sitting right on the JD dealer lot. Had I not found it I would have bought an old one and restored it.

How are you going to balance the drum?
What fail do you have?
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #7,358  
Hi Guys,

I had hoped to get to the end of this thread before I posted my request for opinions ... currently on page 535, but have found myself in the situation where I need to make a decision ... so ...

I have a CK30 - gear tractor with 23PTO HP ... 3PL lift at 1764 lbs

As I am in Australia, we do have a somewhat limited range of available flails ... and due to current conditions, an even more limited range of what's actually in stock (or in stock soon). Looking at the manufacturers recommended specifications, most (if not all) recommend a higher PTO power than what I currently have, but using the mantra on this forum - "if you can lift it, you can turn it", and "5hp per foot" ... I am looking a 5ft wide mowers.

I have 30 acres of flat to sloping ground. It's an equestrian facility, so we have horses to do alot of the pasture mowing. As horses are fussy eaters, they tend to eat parts of the paddocks (2.5 - 5 acres) down to 1" ... and leave parts to grow to 8". I intend to use the flail to mow down to about 2" ... mulch and spread the manure piles, and then leave the pastures to recover to about 4" before putting horses back. The property is fairly good, with only small areas of some woody weeds, and a couple of blackberry patches I am trying to control.

So .... my choices seem to be between


Hayes - Chinese made - just over 5ft - manual side shift - weights about 1124 lbs - recommended HP @ 35 = around $5000

Muthing Eco-Top 160- German made - manual side shift - just over 5ft - weights around 770lbs - recommended HP @ 30 = around $8500

Del Morino Flipper 152 - Italian made - manual side shift - 62" - weights around 635 lbs - recommended HP @ 30 = around $6000

Berti Park/P 145 - Italian made - manual side shift - just under 5ft - weights around 825 lbs - recommended HP @ 25 = around $9200

all have hammer blades - seems difficult or special ordered (read: 4 month wait) to get Y blades.

Very interested in everyones feedback and opinions on the best options, and if I will "be able to turn" these effectively

Thanks

Andrew
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #7,359  
Hi Guys,

I had hoped to get to the end of this thread before I posted my request for opinions ... currently on page 535, but have found myself in the situation where I need to make a decision ... so ...

I have a CK30 - gear tractor with 23PTO HP ... 3PL lift at 1764 lbs

As I am in Australia, we do have a somewhat limited range of available flails ... and due to current conditions, an even more limited range of what's actually in stock (or in stock soon). Looking at the manufacturers recommended specifications, most (if not all) recommend a higher PTO power than what I currently have, but using the mantra on this forum - "if you can lift it, you can turn it", and "5hp per foot" ... I am looking a 5ft wide mowers.

I have 30 acres of flat to sloping ground. It's an equestrian facility, so we have horses to do alot of the pasture mowing. As horses are fussy eaters, they tend to eat parts of the paddocks (2.5 - 5 acres) down to 1" ... and leave parts to grow to 8". I intend to use the flail to mow down to about 2" ... mulch and spread the manure piles, and then leave the pastures to recover to about 4" before putting horses back. The property is fairly good, with only small areas of some woody weeds, and a couple of blackberry patches I am trying to control.

So .... my choices seem to be between


Hayes - Chinese made - just over 5ft - manual side shift - weights about 1124 lbs - recommended HP @ 35 = around $5000

Muthing Eco-Top 160- German made - manual side shift - just over 5ft - weights around 770lbs - recommended HP @ 30 = around $8500

Del Morino Flipper 152 - Italian made - manual side shift - 62" - weights around 635 lbs - recommended HP @ 30 = around $6000

Berti Park/P 145 - Italian made - manual side shift - just under 5ft - weights around 825 lbs - recommended HP @ 25 = around $9200

all have hammer blades - seems difficult or special ordered (read: 4 month wait) to get Y blades.

Very interested in everyones feedback and opinions on the best options, and if I will "be able to turn" these effectively

Thanks

Andrew
Wow those are insanely high prices for flails. Andrew there are flails out there that are specifically made for low power tractors and you have a really good brand close to you in New Zealand called Trimax. I would check them out first.
 
   / Let's talk flail mowers #7,360  
Wow those are insanely high prices for flails. Andrew there are flails out there that are specifically made for low power tractors and you have a really good brand close to you in New Zealand called Trimax. I would check them out first.

Thanks for your reply.

Everything down-under is stupidcrazyinsane prices compared to the USA. I have chatted to the guys at Trimax .. they do seem like really nice mowers, and really nice guys.

Their option is the

Eezeemow FX155 - NZ made - manual side shift - just over 5ft - weights around 460lbs - recommended HP @ 20 = around $8000
Not available until late February 2022

My grass gunna grow lots between now and Feb 2022
 
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