Light Material vs Rock and Dirt Bucket

dturnmire · Jun 25, 2004

What is the main difference between the material and rock buckets? The light material bucket for the PT-180 is 7 cu.ft. while the rock bucket is only 4 cu. ft. They aren't very big and I was wondering if the material bucket would do anything the rock bucket would do.

Aside from the size is the material bucket made of lighter material and more likely to be damaged? Would anyone know if teeth are available for the larger bucket?

MossRoad · Jun 25, 2004

On my PT425 the small bucket is 5 cubic feet and the large bucket is 10. The steel on each seems to be the same, but you have to consider the distance between the sides is a few inches narrower, and it is not as deep as the big bucket, nor as tall. For that matter, the little bucket fits inside the big bucket completely. The longer the span, the weaker, or maybe I should say, the more likely you can bend it. I'd really have to measure the buckets to see if there is an actual thickness difference.

pairodime · Jun 25, 2004

Has anyone bent a LMB from overloading?? Is the most likely problem just having the PT go into "pucker"? Thanks

Trojan6 · Jun 25, 2004

I've got both for my 180. The light material bucket is nice simply because it is larger. Therefore, I use it mostly as a wheelbarrow for hauling large amounts of things around. I don't think they will put the teeth on it. The rock bucket, on the other hand, is probably my favorite implement. I've got teeth on it, and it is amazing what you can do with it (uprooting small trees, moving dirt, plowing in reverse). I like the teeth for hauling odd shaped things around (pickets, fence posts, etc...), because they provide a lip to hold it in place better than the forks do. I think the size of both is relative to lift capacity of the machine and has nothing to do with the manufacturing of them. They are identical in their construction, only one is bigger than the other (obviously). I think that the "pucker-factor" is what drives the size of them. Hope this helps.

Stefan

tracdoc · Jun 26, 2004

Like many PT'ers, I too am trying to economize on my purchases of attachments. I was planning on geting the light materials bucket when I pick up my 425 in a couple of weeks. I chose that mainly for size in carrying mulch, sod, etc. I was considering purchase of an after-market tooth bar such as:
Attachments International, Inc.
or
Markham Welding custom toothbars

Would this be a reasonable option, or should I be getting the rock bucket with teeth? Does anyone have an idea of the cost of an aftermarket toothbar, and ease of installation? I only would consider this with a bolt-on install, as a welded fit would defeat my multi-tasking goal for the LM bucket
Thanks for your help.

Bob999 · Jun 26, 2004

Tooth bars typically cost around $60 per foot ($300 for a 60" bucket)and weigh around 12+ lbs per foot (60-70 lbs for a 60" bucket). The tooth bars I have seen are bolt on and are considerably more rugged then the PT teeth because they put a heavy reinforcement on the blade edge and have hardened replaceable teeth.

dbetts · Jun 30, 2004

I asked Scott that question when I bought my 425 in Sept. He said they are made of the same thickness steel just like Moss Road said. I bought the 5 cu ft rock bucket with teeth and noticed just yesterday some bowing of the lip. I also have some trouble on hills hauling a bucket full of gravel. If i were just hauling mulch this wouldn't be as much of a problem. I guess my point is if you are going to be rooting around in hard packed clay and rock you'd be better off with the rock bucket. If you're mostly hauling stuff then the bigger bucket should be fine.

tracdoc · Jun 30, 2004

Well, after spending the entire day in beautiful Tazewell yesterday playing, er... workng with the variuos attachments for the 425, I finally opted to get NEITHER the rock (small) nor the light materials (large) buckets.

As Scott confirmed, they are indeed made of the same material stock. He was of the opinion that the LM bucket had the potential to bend sooner than the rock bucket ("a long stick bends easier than a short one"), but felt that the PT pucker would kick-in to "warn" the user of overload.

My decision involved jettisoning three other implements that were on my list, (at least for now) so I could purchase the 4-in-1 bucket. That implement is awesome! It can do virtually all the tasks of the grapple bucket and so much more, like grading, smoothing, controlled release of contents, and dumping over the side rail of my pickup truck with ease and safety, since I don't have to raise the bucket as high as the limit I would need using the fixed buckets. Size wise, the 4-in-1 is almost exactly midway between the RB and LM buckets, measuring ~45" across
I purchased the bucket in its native form, i.e., without teeth. After discussing with Scott, I plan to install an after-market toothbar. In an earlier post on this thread, I listed 2 manufacturers for these (I'm sure there are a lot more). Attachments International quoted an estimate of $510 (! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif) for a 45-48" toothbar. Markham Welding quoted a price of $175.00 for an equivalent hardened unit with replaceable teeth (pin removable). I haven't called AI to find out why their product seems so pricey. As Bob999 explained to me, the bars add a strip of heavy steel along the entire edge. That takes the brunt of the wear and tear, saving the bucket edge itself.

The toothbar is fastened with just 2 bolts at the sides of the bucket, so the operator can quickly remove all teeth +bar at once to use the bucket for smoothing/grading. In contrast, the OEM teeth require drilling one hole for each tooth along the bucket edge itself. Those teeth are individually replaceable too, by unbolting and then installing new tooth.

Thank you all for your helpful input.

MossRoad · Jun 30, 2004

Sounds like a good, logical thought process... you did good! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

tlb · Jun 30, 2004

How is the opening of the "mouth" controlled for the 4N1 bucket?

tracdoc · Jun 30, 2004

On the 425, the jaws of the 4-in-1 are controlled by the hydraulic circuit which engages the quick-attach for all of the attachments. Once the bucket is attached, you de-pressurize that circuit, while the locking pins are engaged, and then attach the hoses to the bucket. Opening and closing are then controlled by the small black hydraulic lever outboard of the operator's right knee. Since the hose couplings are of the same "gender," one can hook up two ways. All that means is that in one configuration, "lever up" will close the bucket, and in the other, "lever up" will open it /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. The newbie here plans to use color coding zip ties on the hoses so get them hooked up the same way each time, and avoid any surprises early on.

tracdoc · Jun 30, 2004

Thanks MR! It's been a delightful process learning about something entirely new to me. You may not recall, but you were the first person I contacted for basic information when I "accidentally" heard about Power Trac on another Forum.
Thanks again.

pairodime · Jun 30, 2004

When do you get your 425? I plan on going this Friday to pick up mine. They say they are just coming together now and hope to have it ready. The 425 will now have the Robins engine and a slightly altered engine compartment layout.

MossRoad · Jun 30, 2004

I appreciate the comments. I have spoken to so many people about these machines that it is getting hard to put the e-mail names to the screen names, here /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I enjoy watching people go through a thought process to decide on the proper machine for them. Even if it isn't a power trac, I'm happy for someone that gets the machine that fits all their needs. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

FOURTEEN · Jul 1, 2004

I have the rock teeth on my Grapple Bucket, but the PT-425 still doesn't like digging into my compacted red clay!

I have found that it more efficient to loosen a large area with the Potato Digger, then scoop up the loose soil with the LM Bucket. Of course, the quick attach makes it easy to switch between these attachments.

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MossRoad · Jul 1, 2004

<font color="blue"> Of course, the quick attach makes it easy to switch between these attachments. </font>

And that is the key with these machines. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

You can switch unpowered implements in 15 seconds without getting off the machine. So you can take the potato digger, rip up an area, jam it into the ground, hit the lever down by your knee to disconnect, back away, drive into your bucket, hit the lever again to attach it and go scoop up the spoils. You can get much more work out of these smaller machines than is possible with a conventional tractor of the same size, even larger ones, because of this quick attach feature. In my opinion it is the major selling point of these machines. It allows you to be so much more productive compared to conventional tractors in landscaping/homeowner type chores. It really is the right tool for the job. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

FOURTEEN · Jul 1, 2004

Exactly!!
When recently excavating for my Morton Building, my neighbor with his fancy 45 hp New Holland with a big bucket and a box blade came over to prepare a level site.
True, he could rip up and move lots of heavy clay dirt, but it was slow going getting around the trees and trying to smooth out the rough spots. Reluctantly he suggested that maybe the Power Trac could be of some help. Within an hour he was singing the praises of the little PT-425 with the LM bucket !! To onlookers I'm sure we looked like a bomber and a fighter! As he hauled the heavy stuff, I would swoop in behind and around him to spread and smooth! It was very effective to run at nearly full speed in reverse with my bucket in 'float' scraping the loose dirt. (No worries about stability on fast turns, or on uneven ground, with the reversed wheels!!) At first with the bucket nearly vertical, then progressively more horizontal as the surface leveled out. Then compacting the ground with my "roller bucket", and finally preparing a nice flat finish with my "MiniHoe skid scraper"!!
For a smaller project the Potato Digger/LM Bucket method would have done the job, but for this project, Danny and 'Big Blue' were a BIG help!! I'm still not quite sure who helped who the most, but I do know that the tag team of David and Goliath were hard to beat!!!!

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tracdoc · Jul 1, 2004

Pairodime,

Our units must be "birthing" together as we speak. I will be getting mine after PowerTrac gets back from their 1 week shop vacation next week.
Boy, am I glad to have the support of this Forum as I embark on this adventure!