Lightning strike, well pump box failed

[WoodChuckDad]

I turned off the breaker and pulled the pump wires and tested each leg for ohms. Nothing over 0. Put it back together. Incoming voltage to box, L1 is 123v and L2 is 123 v. turn the water on and when them pump starts, its 360 going out. It built to 370 and then the tank reached 70psi and turned off till it dropped down to 50. Then it repeated. When I have two faucets open at once, the pressure stabilizes at 64 psi and it just runs continuously and that was when I had a reading of 375
It’s a cyclestop csv125. I put it in when I installed the well pump in March 2022. I guess the control box is working the way it is supposed to and the capacitors is just accelerating the voltage. Had I not tested the outgoing voltage, I wouldn’t even question it. This is the setup. For my tank, and the CSV is about 3.5 feet below my pitless adapter in the well.
View attachment IMG_5261.jpg

 

[Valveman]

I turned off the breaker and pulled the pump wires and tested each leg for ohms. Nothing over 0. Put it back together. Incoming voltage to box, L1 is 123v and L2 is 123 v. turn the water on and when them pump starts, its 360 going out. It built to 370 and then the tank reached 70psi and turned off till it dropped down to 50. Then it repeated. When I have two faucets open at once, the pressure stabilizes at 64 psi and it just runs continuously and that was when I had a reading of 375
It’s a cyclestop csv125. I put it in when I installed the well pump in March 2022. I guess the control box is working the way it is supposed to and the capacitors is just accelerating the voltage. Had I not tested the outgoing voltage, I wouldn’t even question it. This is the setup. For my tank, and the CSV is about 3.5 feet below my pitless adapter in the well.
View attachment 3272589

370V is normal on the run cap leg. You should not have needed a new start cap if the CSV and check valve are working properly. You say it repeats from 50 to 70, but is that with a tap open or closed? The CSV should keep the pump running continuously with two, or even just one faucet running. If the pump runs continuously while a shower's worth of water is being used, the CSV is working. If the pump is repeating the 50 to 70 when no taps are open the check valve on the pump has failed. A failed check valve, Cycle Stop Valve, or sometimes the pressure tank can cause the start cap to fail. Be glad to help.

 

[Carl_NH]

David, glad you solved this - but suggest you get a replacement capacitor and keep that one as a spare in the event this occurs again.

Also, there is no question that the CSV extends pump life by keeping the pump running while drawing water. But I think the best combination is the CSV and a larger bladder tank, so you get 8-10 gallons of drawdown, then the pump turns on and runs until there is no more demand.

Case in point, a dishwasher, or clothes washer, pulls a few gallons then runs its cycle, or you turn on the sink, flush the toilet, and the pump runs in your current setup, then turns off once demand is met.

If you increased your storage capacity (larger bladder tank), this would reduce the "starts" which ultimately is the goal is to minimize the starts prolonging pump life, so adding storage capacity, along with a CSV would achieve that,

You can easily add one in series with your current tank - they are 14-18" diameter, and 3-5' tall so could fit in the corner below your current tank - if I recall your plumbing room accurately.

 

[steve tym]

The lightning was just a coincidence. The pump tripped the overload because the start cap was bad. The start cap and relay are not even in the circuit after the pump is started or when the pump is off. So, lightning does not take out start caps and relay. Lightning will blow a hole in the side of of the motor or blow the wires into, but not make the start cap fail. The high voltage after the control box is from the running capacitor, which is common on 1.5HP or larger.

I knew you did not have a VFD because if you had even heard thunder from afar, the VFD would have failed. There is no overload to reset on a VFD. When they get hit or just quit a new VFD controller is needed for $1200 to $5K, which is exactly why pump companies push VFD's.

VFD controls require frequent and costly replacements. Pumps without a CSV cycle themselves to death. A failed start cap, pressure switch, tank diaphragm, or check valve is a sign the pump is cycling on and off too much and will have a short life. Pumps controlled by a Cycle Stop Valve last for decades without any maintenance, which is exactly why pump companies try there best to talk you out of one.

View attachment 3269677

We see that coincidence frequently after lightning, bad relays and caps.

 

[steve tym]

I turned off the breaker and pulled the pump wires and tested each leg for ohms. Nothing over 0. Put it back together. Incoming voltage to box, L1 is 123v and L2 is 123 v. turn the water on and when them pump starts, its 360 going out. It built to 370 and then the tank reached 70psi and turned off till it dropped down to 50. Then it repeated. When I have two faucets open at once, the pressure stabilizes at 64 psi and it just runs continuously and that was when I had a reading of 375
It’s a cyclestop csv125. I put it in when I installed the well pump in March 2022. I guess the control box is working the way it is supposed to and the capacitors is just accelerating the voltage. Had I not tested the outgoing voltage, I wouldn’t even question it. This is the setup. For my tank, and the CSV is about 3.5 feet below my pitless adapter in the well.
View attachment 3272589

Which line are you seeing 375 volts on?
And, valveman is right, if your pump is cycling with a csv, there is something wrong with it.

 

[Carl_NH]

Agreed - but David's statements are " It built to 370 and then the tank reached 70psi and turned off till it dropped down to 50.It built to 370 and then the tank reached 70psi and turned off till it dropped down to 50. Then it repeated. When I have two faucets open at once, the pressure stabilizes at 64 psi and it just runs continuously

"Then it repeated" is a problem if there is NO demand from the house - turn off the house and if it leaks down you have an issue in the well check valve.

"When I have two faucets open at once, the pressure stabilizes at 64 psi and it just runs continuously" This is normal operation for the CSV and the pump should stay running with minimal demand.

 

[Carl_NH]

Ideally, you want a minimum run time of at least 1 minute for best pump life, so a pump at 10 GPM, would dictate 10 gallon "reserve" to fill before it starts again. Otherwise, every time you draw a gallon or two, the pump cycles on and off.

It only runs continuously without cycling when the demand is present e.g for irrigation, but that's not typical household use.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

I think The check valve is good. It only cycles when a faucet is open. I moved in may of 23. The cycling was pretty fast. Shower on the other side of house would cycle every 9 seconds. The same thing happened when using yard hydrants outside to run a sprinkler. I wrote to support and they helped me adjust the pressure switch higher so that it cycled slower. It was a 60 psi switch and increasing to 70 slowed it down.
I am watching it right now. With kitchen faucet open and on cold, I’m running 69 psi and steady. No cycles. Bathroom sink doesn’t flow that fast so with just the bathroom sink open on cold, it cycles on for 23 seconds. Hot water will always be faster because the hot doesn’t flow as fast. There is a spin filter on the hot which restricts the flow as well as the boiler itself. I need to put a larger spin filter on the whole thing because I’m seeing some sediment in the toilet tanks and a few aerators on the faucets.
But the point is the check valve is solid. I think my pressure is just so high, that it overwhelms the csv and short cycles

 

[etpm]

Carl_NH suggested that a spare capacitor should be kept on hand. I heartily agree with this. I have a spare cap for my well. My neighbor didn't have a spare cap handy when his setup quit working. On a Sunday. You would think that on an island where practically everybody is on a well the hardware stores would have start caps for sale. But no. Even on the north end, 60 miles away, Home Depot should have start caps for sale. No dice. Anyway, my neighbor calls me up to see if I can help. I took the start cap out of my big bandsaw and used it to get their water back on. After that I bought extra caps for my well. My neighbor did too. There is room at my well head for all the extra electrical parts needed to keep my well pump pumping. I vacuum sealed them along with wiring instructions so that anybody that can follow directions can get my well back up and running after an electrical fault.
Eric

 

[WoodChuckDad]

Carl_NH suggested that a spare capacitor should be kept on hand. I heartily agree with this. I have a spare cap for my well. My neighbor didn't have a spare cap handy when his setup quit working. On a Sunday. You would think that on an island where practically everybody is on a well the hardware stores would have start caps for sale. But no. Even on the north end, 60 miles away, Home Depot should have start caps for sale. No dice. Anyway, my neighbor calls me up to see if I can help. I took the start cap out of my big bandsaw and used it to get their water back on. After that I bought extra caps for my well. My neighbor did too. There is room at my well head for all the extra electrical parts needed to keep my well pump pumping. I vacuum sealed them along with wiring instructions so that anybody that can follow directions can get my well back up and running after an electrical fault.
Eric

That is genius. I have some replacement items for other important things around the farm, in my connex that are ziplocked with identification of the parts. I think I need to add instructions. I kept the control box that failed and plan to replace the start cap. And the relay. I’ve been watching some videos about the multi-meter because, I really don’t know my way around the multi-meter very well. I always say I’m going to learn but I muddle thru a task and then move on. I also need to get an amperage meter that has the clamp. I really don’t know how I have justified not buying one with everything I built here and with all the things that require troubleshooting.
I am surprised that nobody offers a one or two night class where they teach you to use them, along with some practical troubleshooting.

Back to the cSV cycling, I am not sure if I should put another tank in-line, or if I should put some kind of flow or pressure restrictor in. But I definitely have more pump cycling than In planned on having.