Loader Hydraulics Dead

[fredoroberts]

I have been pretty impressed lately with my recently aquired, but used, B2150 with LA 350A loader. Three days ago I was lifting 500-600 lb rocks around and creating a great new landscape. My wife was stoked and any question about buying a tractor was fading fast...

Then we got 5 inches of rain in a day and a half. The Kubota sat through it as I don't have any covered space for it. Yesterday as things were drying out it fired up fine, but when I tried to raise the bucket..nothing.. well maybe it raised 1/2 inch or so, with slightly more life showing in the roll back direction. the 3 pt lift in the back works normally.

I haven't a clue about how to trouble shoot this. Could it be related to the heavy rain, or is this just a coincidence?

Still waiting for the owners manual from Carver, so I'm hoping for some help here. I read in an earlier post that the controls could be stuck in in "float" position. I will check that, but what the heck is "float" any way?

Thanks for help!

 

[Bird]

With the front end loader, as you know, you pull the control stick, or joystick, back to raise the bucket, and push it forward to lower the bucket. As you push forward to lower the bucket, you will feel a detent, or stop. Push harder to pass that detent and the bucket will be in the "float" mode, which means there is no pressure to either raise or lower the bucket. I use it frequently to back drag and smooth dirt. It will stay on the ground, but will raise and lower to ride over any high spots.

As far as the problem with not being able to raise the bucket, I'm not sure what that might be. Did you check to make sure the hydraulic oil is at the right level? Did increasing engine RPMs make a difference? Does the joystick have it's full range of movement? Are all the hoses still hooked up? No visible leaks? How cold was it where you are? Had the engine warmed up a bit before you tried it?

Bird

 

[fredoroberts]

Thanks Bird. Good definition of float, now I've got it. Does the control stick return to the neutral position after engaging float? (It must I know but I had to ask).

About not being able to raise the bucket, or roll it, I did not check the hydraulic oil, will do right away (though I just had a major service). Increasing the RPM did not make any difference; the stick appears to have it's full range of movement; The hoses are all hooked up; there are no visible leaks; Its not very cold here in southern cal, maybe 62 degrees; while I did try to raise the bucket right after start-up, I also let the engine warm up a bit and this did not help. Any other good ideas?

I know this is a stupid thought, but I am hoping that when I go home from work today, that somehow after sitting in the sun all day the tractor will start up and the loader will work again.

If it turns out that the hydraulic fluid is low, do I just fill it back up, or does it get more complicated than that?

 

[Bird]

When you push the lever forward hard enough to pass the detent and go into the float mode, it will usually stay there until you pull it back (although sometimes when I've taken my hand off the lever on rough ground, hitting a bump may jar it back down). In other words, it does not return to neutral like it does in the other positions. And when you check the fluid level, if it's low, it's simply a matter of adding some, just like checking and adding engine oil. However, if it was serviced lately, it shouldn't be low unless you have a leak somewhere (or unless whoever serviced it failed to put enough in it). I asked about the temperature because some folks have had a problem with rain water getting into a part of the loader valve and freezing so they couldn't move the joystick far enough (obviously not your problem). I'm betting on it being something simple, but right now I can't think of anything else.

Bird

 

[tbarber55]

I have a Kubota L345DT that had the same problem, it was the
hydraulic filter that was pluged up, it`s realy just a
screen. Cleaned it out a few times its working ok for now.
The good thing is if it stops working its easy to fix.

 

[Bird]

That could sure be the problem, all right. Of course, if it just had "major service" that shouldn't be (but that's assuming the "major service" was done by someone who knew what he was doing). tbarber55, I appreciate your jumping in here. I about ran out of ideas and am curious to know what the problem turns out to be.

Bird

 

[Thomas]

Maybe this would help.
Change the hydraulic fuild and filter.
Check setting on your relief valve.
Check to see if any of the ports are dirty,and if so flush them clean.
Do you know if the owner before had a hose break?
Someone might have mix two different types of hydraulic fuilds,and check to see if the fuild kinda foamy.
I would be most interested in the out come of what you may find.
Wish you the best.

 

[TomG]

It would be good to know if your 3ph lifts while the loader doesn't. Another possibility is that you've got a three spool control valve where the first section goes to rear hydraulic lines and the last two go to the loader. In a common setup, the loader won't function if the rear hydraulics are used. The first section valve should be centered.

 

[KCB]

This may be too easy, but did you happen to turn the hydraulics valve off that feeds the loader? Maybe it was bumped or not fully open to begin with? On my 2150 it is located on the right side of the frame near the brake pedal. It's a hex head nut that you can turn about 90 degrees and it has stops to indicate fully open or closed positions. Enjoy your 2150. Mine has been great. Good luck!

 

[art]

JCB I think might have hit the nail on the head so often when tractors are new to someone many people neighbors, kids, friends and relatives all stop by to see the new "machine" often playing with the levers or catching a lever with their pant leg but not intending to do any harm Kids will twist knobs turn on lites and blow horns. I can't count the times someone was delievered a new tractor on Tuesday and on Saturday morning when they want to use it they can't so they call us and we try to tell them over the phone to check these levers or often send a tech over to reopen a valve. I doubt that the filter got plugged while not in use. Look for the the something simple. It is to bad that you don't have a owners manual. Try calling your local dealer or visiting with him to learn more about your new tractor.

 

[Rch]

If there is water in the transmission/hydraulic case (check boot and shift-lever gasket as it enters the transmission) and it got cold enough water may have froze in the h-fluid return circuit or other low point. Also check transmission breather valve,typically on the top of the transmission/differential case, as a h2o entry point.

RCH

 

[Mryan]

It is so true about people playing with levers and knobs. My son was on the tractor while it was in the garage and he closed the valve for the 3pt hydraulics. When I tried to operate the hitch, it wouldn't move. Took me several hours of looking at everything BUT the shut off valve, before I figured it out /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif. Did you try bleeding the system? Could entrained air be the problem? Just a thought.

Mike.

 

[fredoroberts]

Bingo, I am back in business. KCB you were right, and so was Bird and others who said look for something simple. My 2150 has a "directional valve" on the right side of the frame which feeds either front and rear hydraulics, or just the rear. It has a very thin metal stop so that it is either all the way clockwise or all the way counter cw. The stop was bent over and not stopping, and the placard discribing the function of the hex shaped valve handle is faded and scratched up, can barely read it.

But when I did, I followed the directions, and sure enough my pant leg had turned the valve so that the hydraulics were shut off to the loader! It's good to be back in business so easily. This was a good lesson for me. Thanks for the good advice.

 

[fredoroberts]

You were right Bird, it was simple. Had inadvertantly turned off the hydraulics directional valve to the loader. But now that that is fixed, my float doesn't seem to be working. When I push forward on the stick the bucket just goes down, and it seems like the harder I push it the faster it goes down. Can't feel any detent position and I've pushed forward so hard that it feels like I'm about to break something....and my front wheels are off the ground!

What am I doing wrong? The control stick placard shows a position for float so I think it should be there. maybe something is stuck?

 

[Bird]

Glad it was simple. And I learned something, too. I didn't know that tractor had such a valve.

Bird

 

[Bird]

Well, we almost entered messages at the same time. Maybe there's something different about your loader valve that I don't know, or maybe something's stuck, but every loader I've used (and that's not a large number) had the float position. If you push the stick forward and lift the front wheels, then push past that detent and the front wheels will drop back to the ground. Is there any kind of obstruction preventing the lever from going all the way forward? Sounds to me like there either has to be an obstruction preventing the lever from going forward far enough, or something has to be stuck. I don't know what the experts would recommend, but I'd probably spray a little WD-40 on the rods where they go into the valve and try again. That worked for me once when I had one that didn't want to go into the float position.

Bird

 

[W5FL]

My Kubota has a little hinged plate that restricts the control lever motion. It is right on top of the control box and very easy to see. I asked the dealer what it was for and he said that it was of no use, and I agree with him./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[fredoroberts]

Yea, I have one of those too. I think it is intended to stop someone from fooling around with the controls, but mine is so loose that it doesn't restrict the control enough to stop it from moving the bucket. I will check and see if it is obstructing the movement into float. Might just take it off anyway as it provides a false sense of security.

 

[Bird]

My B7100 didn't have one of those hinged, spring loaded, notched plates, but when the B2710 was delivered, I too, asked the salesman what that was for and he didn't know either. The picture in the manual shows it, but does not label or name it or say anything about why it's there. I thought about taking it off, but haven't. So far, the spring holds it up out of the way, and then I pull it down around the joystick when I remove the loader just so I won't accidentally be moving the stick around (which I don't suppose would hurt anything if I did move it around).

Bird

 

[PaulB]

fred - did you have float before the valve incident? If not, I bet the ball and spring that holds the valve spool in the float position is rusted away. It is an easy fix. to read all about it and WAY MORE go to archives and find a post I did called "loader S-L-O-W in the cold". You will find how to fix it. If you have trouble, post again or email me.