Loader Lift Capacity vs Curl Capacity

[Reb954]

So what we have learned from all of this is simple, the angle to the dangle matters so pay attention to it.

At the end of the day, if your tractor won't pickup the load, figure out a way around it.

 

[Egon]

Easiest solution is to just look up the specifications.

 

[4570Man]

All of this cylinder area discussion is mostly useless. The leverage disadvantage of the curl cylinders is less than the lift cylinders which would offset all or most of the reduction in strength. The lift cylinders are probably working at least 4-1 leverage loss. The curl cylinders are probably like 2-1 loss.

 

[dodge man]

Where I see the curl function seeming weak is when digging into a pile of dirt or gravel. The pile is often deeper over the front edge of the bucket and I can’t curl or lift the bucket until I back up a little. I only have experience with a Kubota and a John Deere but all the end loader features seemed sized well for the tractor. The bucket size wasn’t to big or small, the curl, dump, lift and lower functions seemed the correct size.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I never considered the backward acting bucket cylinder as being an advantage in that respect. I just know, everything seems set to very conservative values. Not like you could ever stall the engine. That would be nice. To get all the digging power possible.

 

[MechE1]

And notice how they are able to achieve better cylinder/link geometry too...it's not on accident.

 

[RickB]

So what we have learned from all of this is simple, the angle to the dangle matters so pay attention to it.

At the end of the day, if your tractor won't pickup the load, figure out a way around it.

I've had people complain that they can pick the rear of the tractor up with a heavy load in the bucket.
I've had people complain that their loader is too weak to pick the rear up with a heavy load in the bucket.
I've had people complain their loader can curl more than it will lift.
I've had people complain their loader can lift more than it will curl.
I've had people complain their loader wouldn't lift the front wheels off the ground then lie about having the brake locked when they were trying.
There is a single factor that limits every operation. Sometimes that limiting factor is in the seat.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I guess they achieve self levelling the same way. Compare that to the horrible clunky, and rattling system on our 6200.



Interestingly, both machines as different as they are and the JD having 75% (or so) more HP, have similar lifting and breakout capability.

 

[MossRoad]

Our little PT425 has a rollover assembly that reverses the path of the curl function. It pushes to curl and pulls to dump.

 

[RickB]

Our little PT425 has a rollover assembly that reverses the path of the curl function. It pushes to curl and pulls to dump.

View attachment 673193

And the simplest mechanical self leveling known to man.

 

[Liquidsilver]

My LA1002 FEL specs say it will lift 2650 pounds. But when I was trying to lift a 10-foot cutter that weighs 1700 pounds off a trailer, I could get it 'light' but I couldn't pick it up. I had to slide it off one side at a time. Can anybody tell me why this is?

 

[Industrial Toys]

The weight was probably at least partly farther out.

Like you can lift something heavier in close to your body but not with arms outstretched.

 

[Hilbilly]

Easiest solution is to just look up the specifications.

That is where this thread started.

In the first post, I noted the loader spec's shown in the brochure, which stated the curl capacity was 75% greater than the lift. That is not what I am experiencing. In post #19 I showed the specs shown in the Operator's Manual, which is much more detailed and explains what I am experiencing.

Essentially it breaks down to this; The brochure shows the lift capacity at the loaders weakest location (maximum height) and the breakout force at the strongest location (ground level). The brochure specs are misleading because the capacities for each function are not shown at the same lift height, which affects the capacities of each function.

I now feel comfortable that the loader is operating properly, just not the same as the previous ones I had. It will just take some time for me to adjust to the way this one functions. The one thing I really like about this loader is the way I can easily operate the curl and lift functions simultaneously. My previous loaders were extremely difficult to operate both at the same time and a lot of the time I would just give up trying to do both at once and just do one at a time.

 

[MossRoad]

And the simplest mechanical self leveling known to man.

Nope. It's not self leveling.

 

[RickB]

Nope. It's not self leveling.

I figured with the bucket cylinder anchored to the PT's main frame rather than the typical mount on the loader boom it would have to self level to some degree. Pretty much the way many wheel loaders are set up. Oh well, wrong again.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Why does my bigger loader with the same design level and yours not?

 

[k0ua]

My LA1002 FEL specs say it will lift 2650 pounds. But when I was trying to lift a 10-foot cutter that weighs 1700 pounds off a trailer, I could get it 'light' but I couldn't pick it up. I had to slide it off one side at a time. Can anybody tell me why this is?

The easiest answer to your question is that the spec of 2650 lbs is for the load to be where? At the pins? 500mm in front of the pins? But hey, a 10 foot rotary cutter is NO WHERE near the pins. It is stuck way the heck out there. The lever arm of the cutter has its weight stuck so far away from the pins I am very surprised you could even make it "light". Ask yourself this, If your 1700 lbs. was dangling under the pins, could you lift it? Most likely yes, Could you lift it at 500 mm in front of the pins? Most likely yes. Those are the two places measurements are commonly taken. Now put on a pole that sticks out 10 foot in front of your pins. Can you lift the 1700 lbs. now? Not likely, let alone what kind of weight you are going to need on the 3pt to keep the tractor from falling on its nose with the rears in the air. Now to absurdly illustrate my point, make the pole 100 foot long. Can you lift a feather on the end of the pole? No, you could not likely even lift the pole. So do you now see why you could not lift the cutter? It was too far out there and acting as a lever prying down on the loader.

 

[k0ua]

Our little PT425 has a rollover assembly that reverses the path of the curl function. It pushes to curl and pulls to dump.

View attachment 673193

Interesting design, and maximizes the curl power with a single cylinder. A cost savings, and still met their engineering goals.

 

[Liquidsilver]

The easiest answer to your question is that the spec of 2650 lbs is for the load to be where? At the pins? 500mm in front of the pins? But hey, a 10 foot rotary cutter is NO WHERE near the pins. It is stuck way the heck out there. The lever arm of the cutter has its weight stuck so far away from the pins I am very surprised you could even make it "light". Ask yourself this, If your 1700 lbs. was dangling under the pins, could you lift it? Most likely yes, Could you lift it at 500 mm in front of the pins? Most likely yes. Those are the two places measurements are commonly taken. Now put on a pole that sticks out 10 foot in front of your pins. Can you lift the 1700 lbs. now? Not likely, let alone what kind of weight you are going to need on the 3pt to keep the tractor from falling on its nose with the rears in the air. Now to absurdly illustrate my point, make the pole 100 foot long. Can you lift a feather on the end of the pole? No, you could not likely even lift the pole. So do you now see why you could not lift the cutter? It was too far out there and acting as a lever prying down on the loader.

Thanks for that. I appreciate the explanation and free education.

I had the bucket up over the cutter, but was using chains around the bucket. Are the pins where the bucket attaches?

I did have an 800 pound implement on the 3pt and my loaded tires. It didn't try to float the back wheels and I was very wary about it going forward when I got it slid off the deck. I almost needed to park the trailer by and oak tree and hang a half at a time, but it slid off without drama as I backed in 2wd.

Thanks again.

 

[k0ua]

Yes, the pins are where the bucket rotates around as it is curled and dumped.