Log cabin construction

[gcp]

Good morning all,

I am getting ready to put up a log cabin (constructed by square oak logs) and was wondering if there's a "worth while" forum out there I can become a member of that discusses construction ideas. What I'm buying is a kit with plans, and directions, and it'll be a 2 story 24x24 cabin.

This is a first for me so I want to avoid as many mistakes as possible. I live in North Alabama....

Thanks,

 

[dmccarty]

I don't have a log cabin house.

We found our builder when he was building a kit house out of 6x6 PT. He has also built a few log cabins. After he built the kit house he said he would prefer to just buy the logs and cut them as needed. I guess finding piece A to put on B was time consuming. And sometimes A did not quite fit B so they had to fiddle to get things to go as they should.

I assume the logs are dried so they won't shrink after the house is built?

Sorry, I don't know of a forum about log homes though. I did google the subject years ago when we where planning our house. I found enough info to make me stay away from log homes. Love the look of them though.

Later,
Dan

 

[Ronbo]

Folks across the freeway from me built a log cabin about 15 years ago. Awesome hardwood throughout. First rain it leaked like a sieve. Company inspected and said that the logs on the ends have some kind of insect in them, now dead because of the treatment. Left holes throughout the logs. Warrenty was that the company would replace any bad logs. They did, they dumped tham in the back yard, like the owners were supposed to disassemble their house and replace the bad logs. The owners just hung plastic on the outside. The logs are now rotten.

I would have just painted it with about 4 coats of 2 part epoxy paint.

Ron

 

[MotorSeven]

I built one out of pine in the eighties. 1600sqf 2 story. I am gearing up to build another one out of my own eastern red cedar(sawmill/log arch).
Safety first: Square oak logs are going to be heavy. Get some type of machinery to lift them(fork lift/FEL/etc) You will also need some scaffolding for the gables. Logs that big will constantly change shape. They will require some fitting so get a set of chisels, a grinder and a small chainsaw. You will need a heavy duty 1/2in drill & bits to bore holes. Add to this list beer & ice for the end of the day for those that help you.
Google "log home construction" and read a ton. Do not get in a hurry, that is when mistakes happen. Post some pic's here of your progress so we can armchair quarterback.......

RD

 

[pappy19]

I live in a "log home only" subdivision in Idaho. I am forester by trade and did alot of investigation before building our home. First, the more dense the tree, the less insulation you will get as the cold, and heat will penetrate more easily. Your oak logs will work but they will not hold heat in the winter very well and visa-versa. The oak will also be prone to alot of insects and will require alot more maintenance to maintain their look and keep the bugs out.

I would suggest that you sell the oak logs to a mill and take that money and purchase a cedar log home kit. Alot less insect worry and maintenance issues are alot less as well. You will like the results of a cedar log home as compaired to any other, except for maybe a cypress log home which is equal or better IMHO.

 

[N80]

I would agree about the oak logs. Does not sound like a good idea to me.

I built my log cabin close to 5 years ago now. It is one story, 1000 sq ft, made of square pine logs and came as a kit from Southland Log Homes.

Log Cabins and Log Homes for Every Life Style | Southland Log Homes

Southland was great to work with. The logs are pine and are treated with Tim-Bor for termite protection. Cedar or cypress might be better but are often nearly twice as expensive. The Soutland logs are guaranteed to life against insect damage.

I had the foundation laid and the metal roof installed but I did everything else myself with the help of friends and family. I had significant experience at building prior to this.

I'm glad I did it. It turned out fine. It was a great learning and bonding experience for the whole family which was priceless. But it was hard and it took a long time. The foundation, floor, walls, roof etc were done very well and are super solid. However, my inexperience on trim, modling, soffits, etc shows. But this is a weekend cabin, not a permanent home, so the minor uglies and flaws, etc give it character.

Feel free to PM me or ask any questions you have here in this thread, I'm no expert but I know what worked and what didn't and I can give some pretty good pointers and tips. I can post some pics to if anyone is interested.

 

[studor]

I have a circa 1860's squared log cabin (20 x 30 feet 2 storey) that I have restored. It has about a five foot deep basement with piled stone walls, then two cedar logs, then the squared pine logs. I have never seen one around here constructed from hardwood (part of that is that it would be harder to cut, shape and drill than the softwood with manual tools).
I now have a twelve foot wide wrap around porch to keep the moisture well away form the logs. I have not seen a forum for log homes but have not really looked.
Wait untill you find out what a PITA chinking is

 

[N80]

On modern log homes there is no chinking. My logs have grooves milled into the bottoms and ribs milled into the tops. You cover the ribs with foam tape then screw the logs together.

My kit used Oly-Log screws which are these long narrow hardened steel screws. They are fantastic and self tapping. They are the hardest steel I've ever encountered, even with a Sawsall it is tedious and slow to cut through one! You have to have a powerful drill to sink them but they sink fast and hold tight. I would highly recommend them for any new cabin.

I'm pretty sure they would not do well in oak.

 

[studor]

George -- you mean on milled log homes there is no chinking -- and technically that foam strip is chinking -- there are still a bunch of places around here that will sell you a "shell" cut from logs dowelled together in the traditional fashion. With foam insulation and modern chinking compounds the r rating ends up at least as good as the log thickness. Believe me I am not commenting on one over the other -- I think any log home is great and building or renovating any of them is a worth while accomplishment.
It's just that after several weeks of chinking, I was trowelling and smoothing the stuff in my sleep!

 

[N80]

Well, if the foam tape was the chinking then it was pretty easy chinking. Southland sells a square log with a groove milled in it that you fill with some sort of latex stuff to look like real chinking. I passed on that option.

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

I built a 36X28 pine log cabin about 5 years ago. It is my hunting cabin/getaway, not my primary residence. I felled the logs myself and had a local guy with a potable sawmill come in and saw the logs into 6X7 rectangles. I put 2 parallel strips of 1X2 between each course and chinked between the logs. I just like the chink look plus adding 3/4" to each course eliminated a course of logs. I also fastened each course of logs to the one below using the oly-log screws. I would highly recommend those type fasteners. They surely make a sturdy structure.

Building the cabin was hard work but a labor of love. It was slow going just working on weekends, but I wouldn't take anything for the experience. It is quite satisfying using and enjoying the fruits of my labor.

One thought regarding using oak. I agree that I don't think it is the best choice of materials. I think it will be much harder to work with than a softer wood like pine. You will notice that almost all of the log home companies use some sort of pine, although there is one that I know of that uses oak. I think they are called Gastineau Log Homes out of MO if I remember correctly. I have seen their adds in log home magazines.

I am not a building trades craftsman and only mildly handy so completing such a project without much input from people more knowledgable is somewhat a miracle. That's what makes it such a satisfying experience.

Here are some pics. In one of the pics is a door I made out of tongue and groove 2X4s. I made the headboards out of limbs off the pine trees. The interior walls are skinned with random width 1 bys cut at the same time as the logs were being cut on the sawmill. The ceiling is 1X6 tongue and groove pine bought commercially.

 

[EddieWalker]

I live in North Alabama

Have you bought the kit already?

I'm a General Contractor and do allot of home repairs, including log homes. Here in East Texas, Satterwhite is the biggest dealer and supplier of log homes. I don't know how they compare to others, but there are some issues with them. Most of it is because of our high humidity and amount of rains. Four feet per year is normal. I'm guessing that Northern Alabama is about the same.

It is a never ending chore to keep them from rotting out. Exposed wood as a general rule of thumb here in the south is either bug food, or compost waiting to happen.

If you are building because you really like the look of a log home, I would recomend looking into stick framed homes with log looking siding. You get to insulate it, run your wires and pipes through the walls and you can wrap it with house wrap to make it weatherproof. Add the logs to the outside of the framing and nobody will be able to tell the difference from just looking at it.

Whatever you do, be sure to compare other log homes and the owners of them that live in the same climate as you do. Northern Alabama is nothing like Montana or Maine. They have totally different issues and are great areas for log homes. The South just isn't a good place for log homes.

Eddie

 

[N80]

The South just isn't a good place for log homes.

Eddie

Eddie, I've got to disagree to a certain extent. The south might not be the best place for log homes but down here in hot humid SC they do quite well. There are three others near mine. The oldest is pushing 30 years old and they have had no problems with the logs. Ditto for the one that is right at 20 years old. Both are permanent homes. Mine is about 5, the other one about two. Zero log problems. Average rainfall in Fairfield county is 3.8 ft/year (much less in the last few years though) and humidity in the summer is routinely in the 90% range. Mine faces south gets good sun.

I think the key lies in several aspects. First, the design of the logs, particularly the end joints is important. Mine are dovetail. And the logs screw down tight. Second, the logs have to be stained with the right stain and stained properly and at proper intervals. Mine will need to be stained again in about a year. Third, I think the insect treatment is important. And again, my logs are guaranteed for life against insect damage.

These kits are extremely popular around here and I don't know of any recurrent problems. Makes me wonder about the manufacturer you have there.

A lot of these kits are sold by franchise type dealers who only market and sell the kits. And who knows where they get their logs. The place where I bought mine, Southland, cuts and mills the logs on their main site in Columbia, SC. They also kiln dry them and treat them there. And maybe that makes a difference.

 

[MotorSeven]

N-80 you forgot 3 more things to prevent rot:
1-a large overhang
2-a large overhang
3-a large overhang


RD

 

[Highsmith]

This is a log cabin workshop my son and I attended: Log Home Builders Association | Log homes & log cabins from scratch - don't buy kit log homes
You can join a forum to discuss everything related to log home building. The class was exceptional and we learned a lot.

 

[Lasgambler]

I have to agree with N80. I am a General Contractor and have built Log homes in Washington State, Arizona and Louisianna. My Son-in-law has a large Log Home Company in Montana that builds homes all across the country. I'm sure that Eddie probaly has seen Log homes with problems. Probaly were not treated in the beginning or regulary maintained. You can't skimp on the finish treatment. Its Expensive Stuff. Then with regular maintaince they will last a life time and then some.

The Homes I have built have been Cedar, Pine and Fir. I don't think I would be interested in building a Oak Home. I googled " Log home Forum" and had a couple of hits. Good Luck! Build Your Dream!!, Just don't get cheap at the end when you need to treat it and finish it.

 

[EddieWalker]

While it's not possible for me to inspect any of the log homes you guy speak of, and I have reason to doubt any of you on how good you and your friends log homes are doing, I will argue that if I look at ten log homes, I'll find rot in at least five and two of them will be in need of major repair. We can blame maintenance, log type, log style and location, but it all starts with the basic use of logs for exterior walls. There are better materials for a home, but logs have a look and feel to them that nothing else can match. I love it that others have log homes, and I love it that there are those people who have them in my area of the country. I enjoy looking at them, renting one for a long weekend and of course, making money fixing them. I just won't own one in this area.

The main flaw to the Satterwhite log homes are the style of the logs. They are what's called D logs. Flat on top with grooves cut to seal them together. It sounds like a great idea, but it's where the water collects. If the ends were round, then water would shed off of them and they would last longer. The D logs hold water and in a few years, they begin to rot. I've never seen one yet that didn't have some degree of rot on top of those ends. I'm only talking about a few dozen homes, but it's 100% of them. It could be that only people with problems call me, but I've looked at buying them at one time, to either live in, finish off a job that the owners gave up on, and one to flip.

I take a screwdriver and start poking. Good, solid wood is stops a flat head screwdriver withought leaving a mark. Bad wood just swallows the screwdrivers tip. Most of the time, it's a quick fix of cleaning out the rot, putting in some coated deck screws and filling the void with bondo. Then sand and stain to match.

On a few occasions, I've had to cut out the logs and replace them. That's more work, but not that difficutl. Just screw a lenght of 2x6 to the log above the rot and fit a 20 ton jack under it. Jack it up until the logs seperate. Cut out the bad section and replace it with a good one. Use lots of silicone and lower it back together.

I've also had them with the ends so rotten that they are almost gone, but the rest of the log is fine. Instead of replacing the log, wich is expensive and involved, I've built it back up with bondo. I clean out all the rot to the good stuff. Install screws to hold the bondo in place and build it up to match the log. I like to create a round top to shed water that's not noticable from below.

Here's a few pics. The last one is full of rot on several of the ends, but all small stuff.

Eddie

 

[scesnick]

On modern log homes there is no chinking. My logs have grooves milled into the bottoms and ribs milled into the tops. You cover the ribs with foam tape then screw the logs together.

My kit used Oly-Log screws which are these long narrow hardened steel screws. They are fantastic and self tapping. They are the hardest steel I've ever encountered, even with a Sawsall it is tedious and slow to cut through one! You have to have a powerful drill to sink them but they sink fast and hold tight. I would highly recommend them for any new cabin.

I'm pretty sure they would not do well in oak.

I agree with N80, I have an Oldtimer Log Home and they also use the Oly-Lags and they are super hard and work very well.

 

[scesnick]

Eddie, My log Home usues "D" logs but I have saddlenotched ends. So, really only the top log has a flat area where water can lay. And, even then the top log is up under my soffit a bit so that also keeps the water off of them.
If you look at the corner of the house you have in the pic, each log has an exposed flat top. Saddlenotched logs have the next log right on top of it, not staggered. This does not alllow water to sit on top of the flat surface.

You are 100% correct about the rot factor but that can be GREATLY reduced by simply going with the saddlenotch corners. Any log home manufactuer worth his weight in salt should tell customers about this. I know Old Timer told me when I was looking to buy. That is one of the reasons I built an Old Timer. They were not just out to make a sale as quickly as they can, they take care of their customers.

 

[N80]

N-80 you forgot 3 more things to prevent rot:
1-a large overhang
2-a large overhang
3-a large overhang


RD

Yep, I went 24" all the way around.