Log splitter -- is this going to work?

mikefromnh · Mar 30, 2014

I have a northstar 30t splitter (slow). I'm modifying to have a log lift and an auto cycle valve... As a hydraulic novice I think I understand the plumbing but figured I should make sure.

My plan is to use the existing splitter valve for the log lift and add a prince auto cycle valve. The existing valve I have could handle 3000 psi on the return port per mfr specs. So I could add the auto cycle in series though I've reader enough to know that isn't considered best practice. So here is what I have come up with.

Will it work?
Specs for the auto cycle with PB

http://www.surpluscenter.com/_MoreSpecs/UM9-6587.pdf

glastron23 · Mar 30, 2014

It will work as drawn (Prince does have a PB insert available) except you will run into trouble when you use are using the auto valve (cylinder still moving) and you use the log lift at the same time, the back created will play havoc with the auto cycle.
If you plumbed the log lift in first then go to the auto cycle and control your self to wait for the splitter to do its thing when use the log lift, this would be better for everything. The log lift will be using very little pressure to work the lift table up and down. Jim

mikefromnh · Mar 30, 2014

My goal is to be able to use the log lift while the auto cycle does its thing. I thought by using the PB port and sleeve that downstream valves would not effect the first valves operation?

J_J · Mar 30, 2014

Yes, that will work.

The log splitter valve will have priority at any time

When the log splitter is working, I don't believe there will be any fluid for the log lift valve.

1 SPOOL PRINCE AUTO CYCLE LOG SPLITTER VALVE W/PB

http://www.surpluscenter.com/_MoreSpecs/UM9-6587.pdf

I don't think your return port can handle that pressure.

What brand is the valve?

If you put the log lift in front of the log splitter valve, and it must have PB, and use the log lift, you will shut off fluid to the log splitter. If you feather the log lift valve, you can obtain some log splitter action.

glastron23 · Mar 30, 2014

what is your pump output?? if you want to use both at the same time then install a flow valve first, FR12-30F Hydraulic Flow Regulator Valve , then bleed off a gallon on port 3 to the log lift ( this will act as a speed control also as you can play with the flow) then plumb the splitter to port 2 . This way you can us which ever one you want with out bothering the other.. OPPS sorry this valve is a NONE adjustable unit

glastron23 · Mar 30, 2014

Thy this one FR10-30A Hydraulic Flow Regulator Valve

mikefromnh · Mar 30, 2014

The existing valve that I have is an energy brand valve. It does not have a PB outlet.

I did see this quote from the company on a different forum

The 20038 valve is capable of 3000 PSI on the outlet port when connected in series. It MUST be placed in series first, downstream of the pump outlet and the splitter valve inlet port. The two valves should only be operated individually, not simultaneously since the downstream induced load pressure on the splitter valve will affect the log lift valve's internal relief valve.
If you have questions, call.
Steve Hansen
Applications Engineer
Energy Manufacturing Co., Inc. /
Williams Machine & Tool Co.
(319)-465-3537 X-402
(319)-465-5279 FAX
shansen@energymfg.com

So I guess that means I could plumb the prince auto cycle 2nd in series but only one valve could be used at a time.

I would eventually like to add a third cylinder for an adjustable 4 way wedge, so I'm thinking my first drawing would be the way to go -- I could add another valve in series after the log lift.

But it sounds like it is not possible to operate a 2nd valve while the auto cycle is in use.

mikefromnh · Mar 30, 2014

glastron23 said:
what is your pump output?? if you want to use both at the same time then install a flow valve first, FR12-30F Hydraulic Flow Regulator Valve , then bleed off a gallon on port 3 to the log lift ( this will act as a speed control also as you can play with the flow) then plumb the splitter to port 2 . This way you can us which ever one you want with out bothering the other.. OPPS sorry this valve is a NONE adjustable unit

Didn't see this before my last reply,

It's only an 11 gpm pump. Which makes for a slow cycle time... Why i am thinking about the auto cycle.

With a regulator valve like you posted would it always be diverting a fixed amount to the lift circuit? (Slowing the cycle time for the splitter)

And how would I plumb it in -- before the auto cycle valve? So I wouldn't use the PB port??

glastron23 · Mar 30, 2014

The auto cycle valve will not speed things up only allow you to do something else with out holding the control lever. A regen valve will speed up the extend but not the retract, so your kind of in a bind.. if you have the HP you should look at changing out the pump, add the flow valve then install your other equipment.
The flow valve should be down stream of a pressure regulator (PR) pump to port #1, plumb port#2 to the splitter valve and port#3 to the log/head valves..

J_J · Mar 30, 2014

Would you restate what you have and what you want to do?

Do you want to use a regular log splitter valve.

Do you want to use an auto log splitter valve.

Do you want to use a log lift?

Do you want to use a wedge lift.

Do you want to use a divider valve to split the flow?

You can use the Energy log valve as the log lift, as the OUT port will go to tank.

The log lift can be auto in retract mode if you use the Energy log s litter valve.

All valve should have PB except the last valve.

Excerpt from Energy:

NOTE! Maximum flow rate for the inlet relief valve is 10 gpm (38 lpm)
IMPORTANT!!! Pressure at "T" (return) port in excess of 200 psig (14 bar) may interfere with proper operation of valve. Consult factory if back pressure of over 200 psig (14 bar) is present.

Arc weld · Mar 30, 2014

You could use a flow divider, maybe a priority flow divider for which function is most important and then run each valve off one side of the flow divider. For a big splitter like that 11 GPM isn't much.

mikefromnh · Mar 30, 2014

J_J said:
Would you restate what you have and what you want to do?

Do you want to use a regular log splitter valve.

Do you want to use an auto log splitter valve.

Do you want to use a log lift?

Do you want to use a wedge lift.

Do you want to use a divider valve to split the flow?

You can use the Energy log valve as the log lift, as the OUT port will go to tank.

The log lift can be auto in retract mode if you use the Energy log s litter valve.

All valve should have PB except the last valve.

Excerpt from Energy:

NOTE! Maximum flow rate for the inlet relief valve is 10 gpm (38 lpm)
IMPORTANT!!! Pressure at "T" (return) port in excess of 200 psig (14 bar) may interfere with proper operation of valve. Consult factory if back pressure of over 200 psig (14 bar) is present.

Right now I have a basic log splitter with a single valve (energy)

I have built a log lift and need to buy a cylinder and valve.

I would like to use the existing valve for the log lift and buy an auto cycle for the splitting cylinder.

In the future I would like the option of adding a wedge cylinder without a major redo of the hydraulics.

mikefromnh · Mar 30, 2014

Arc weld said:
You could use a flow divider, maybe a priority flow divider for which function is most important and then run each valve off one side of the flow divider. For a big splitter like that 11 GPM isn't much.

It is the northern tool "30 ton" which has a 17 second cycle time -- it could use a bigger pump/engine but I don't want to put that much more into it right now... I'm hoping the auto cycle will help increase production. (I realize it won't do anything for the cycle time)

I never used it vertically so I reversed the beam and moved the axle back so I wasn't tripping over the tires. Now it's horizontal only with a lift. Eventually I will reverse it so it has the push plate on the ram instead of the current wedge on ram setup. When I do that I will add an adjustable four way like the timberwolf tw6.

Arc weld · Mar 30, 2014

Another thing to think about, does it have a 2 stage pump? Sounds like you're trying to re-engineer the whole thing.

mikefromnh · Mar 30, 2014

Arc weld said:
Another thing to think about, does it have a 2 stage pump? Sounds like you're trying to re-engineer the whole thing.

It is a 2 stage 11 gpm pump
Honda gx160
4.5x24x2 cylinder

I am re-engineering to work better for my needs while re-using as much as possible.

J_J · Mar 30, 2014

Your 4.5 in cyl @3000 can develop only 23 ton. 15.03 cycle time

A lot of the manufacturers fudge their figures.

LD1 · Mar 30, 2014

I am by no means a hydraulic expert when it comes to multiple circuits and more than 1 valve.

BUT.....

Could you.....

Use a tee before the auto cycle valve. to feed the lift valve? And if so, if the lift valve is closed center, it wont rob any fluid from the splitter if not being used. And you can use a flow regulator dial in the speed.

It may require you to but another valve and not be able to use the valve you have. But a small closed center spool valve with 1/4" ports shouldnt cost much.

J_J · Mar 30, 2014

mikefromnh said he was going to use the old Energy log splitter valve for the lift, which is an open center valve.

mikefromnh · Mar 30, 2014

I'm not against buying a closed center valve if what LD1 suggested would work.

Could I then use the existing open center valve off the PB of the auto cycle for an adjustable wedge? I wouldn't need to adjust the height of the wedge while the auto cycle valve is in use.

Arc weld · Mar 30, 2014

How can you use a closed center valve without a variable pump? I think you're confused. 11 GPM is with no load. If you want to use 2 circuits at once, it's going to be painfully slow probably about half the flow.