log winches

[makin1mess]

Anyone got an informed opinion on log winches? I'm looking for one to use on my JD 5055. Let me rephrase this. I need information on Wallenstein winches ie. How they compare with Farmi and some of the other's that I have read about on here.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Welcome to TBN.
If you do a TBN search on winches you will find all kinds of info and opinions here. I am not familiar with your tractor so I can't recomend a model or size but in my opinion you cant go wrong with a Farmi. Or maybe you are just wondering if they are useful or worth the money. That depends on the situation. Give us more info.

 

[Gordon Gould]

You must have edited while I was typing. Never ran a Wallenstein but people like them.

 

[jpm1]

makin1mess
I have a farmi winch and its been active for 30 years now. its an old 300 with legs instead of a blade. I run it for years on a 58 hp Belarus and pulled the lleh out of it pulling 500 cord a year. If i were you and the winch was going to be used on a regular basis such as a business i would go with a JL501. If its just a part time once in a while doing a JL351P will do you fine. Farmi winches are rock tough and you don't have to worry about hurting the winch, be more concerned about breaking your tractor. No matter which you choose , you will find a tough machine with no problems. . . .John

 

[namesray]

Anyone got an informed opinion on log winches? I'm looking for one to use on my JD 5055. Let me rephrase this. I need information on Wallenstein winches ie. How they compare with Farmi and some of the other's that I have read about on here.

i don't run a wallenstein, but i do run a fransgard. here is a website you can search with all kinds of info on wallenstein fx winches. FX Skidding Winch - Wallenstein
my friend has a wallenstein and likes it, but i have never been around it.

the fransgard i use is a 7000lb pulling capacity winch. it has 133 ft of cable and its rate of pull is 2-5 ft per second. i can pull logs with that winch on the back of a 2600lb 4wd with fel kubota b7800 tractor thatis 30 hp just so you can compare winch specs to your jd 5055. jpm1 is right. you will break the tractor before the winch probably. all 3ph winches are built just about bullet proof so you can't really go wrong. i was worried i would snap my 3ph, but no signs of it yet and i use mine heavily all the time. good luck with your shopping and stay safe.

 

[TBarD]

Any thoughts about a 3pt/pto winch vs a front loader mount hydraulic winch? The Farmi etc. winches are pretty expensive for anyone not doing this commercially, and nearly impossible to find used. But given front hydraulics it would be possible to for example mount a hydraulic winch above a grapple (when closed) to be able to haul logs out and then pick them up for transport. A loader mount might have some advantages for winching logs due to the possibility of increased height as well as more convenient view/control. Safety is not a problem as one could easily put some mesh on front of the ROPS. Plus the 3pt is then available for other implements, such as a backhoe with thumb which is also handy for moving logs.

 

[jpm1]

TBarD
Personally i wouldn't advise putting a winch on the front of a loader for the reason the cylinders would not withstand the strain of pulling. Loaders are built for pushing into and picking up, dragging will cause undo strain on cylinders causing premature failure. No way around it, winches put a lot of stress and twisting on a machine and loaders just aren't designed for that type of abuse.

 

[TBarD]

TBarD
Personally i wouldn't advise putting a winch on the front of a loader for the reason the cylinders would not withstand the strain of pulling. Loaders are built for pushing into and picking up, dragging will cause undo strain on cylinders causing premature failure. No way around it, winches put a lot of stress and twisting on a machine and loaders just aren't designed for that type of abuse.

Good point; my loader is rated to lift 4K, but a typical hydraulic winch would be 12K, so it could overload the lift cylinders. I suspect that most log hauling I would do (mostly downslope) would not be an issue, but it could be.

 

[TBarD]

Good point; my loader is rated to lift 4K, but a typical hydraulic winch would be 12K, so it could overload the lift cylinders. I suspect that most log hauling I would do (mostly downslope) would not be an issue, but it could be.

Well that's not quite right as the load would be almost all to the front, hence very little load on the lift cylinders. A high mount like I was thinking of could stress the curl cylinders however. I saw another post by a guy who did this, who mounted the winch across the main loader arms. That might just work.

 

[makin1mess]

Here is a little more info. I have some down Ash since they are all dying in this state thanks to Emerald Borers. Between the ash and some oak and hickory tops from logging, this wood is in wet areas that I don't want to bury the tractor in. Reading posts on here and items on the web, a winch sounds like the best way to go to stay safe and get the wood out at a reasonable expense. Walenstein is carried by a local dealer, which is my main reason for looking at that brand.
TBarD has an interesting idea with the front mount. But I have a grapple bucket on the front. My aux. hyd. hook up is running my grapple, which is why I'm looking at PTO driven winches.

 

[makin1mess]

Also, to all you guy's that responded, Thank You for the information. All good food for thought, which is why I joined. Nothing like an informed decision. I may make 1 less mess

 

[TBarD]

Just to followup on hydraulic vs 3pt skidding winch options - it should be possible to plumb a hydraulic winch so that it could coexist with a front attachment such as a grapple (one also has to reduce the pressure and flow rate). The real problem appears to be that the line speed is a factor of 10 slower if one tries to adapt a truck winch like a MileMarker. Hence not very practical for pulling hundreds of logs off the slope. The Wallenstein skidders (for example) are not all that expensive and are designed for the purpose. But for me it will be another year before I need to go to work on forest cleanup.

 

[jpm1]

I don't have any experience with a hydralic winch to know how fast the line speed is but i was thinking, If you already have one look around for an old 3 pt hitch slip scoop and mount the winch on top of the scoops frame. With a bit of scavanging and welding you could make a pretty fair skidding device and cheaper than a boughten one.
With your Aux Hydraulic already used you could add a Hydraulics Multiplier valve to add another function by just running a 12v wire and switch. I have 2 aux valves on my Kioti and going to locate a double multiplier to add more remotes. Just a thought .. . John

 

[TBarD]

I don't have any experience with a hydralic winch to know how fast the line speed is but i was thinking, If you already have one look around for an old 3 pt hitch slip scoop and mount the winch on top of the scoops frame. With a bit of scavanging and welding you could make a pretty fair skidding device and cheaper than a boughten one.
With your Aux Hydraulic already used you could add a Hydraulics Multiplier valve to add another function by just running a 12v wire and switch. I have 2 aux valves on my Kioti and going to locate a double multiplier to add more remotes. Just a thought .. . John

Thanks! I did not know about the Hydraulics Multiplier valve, that is just what I was looking for. My front Aux is already wired for a 12V switch so this would provide the switching capability needed (there is no need to run both the winch and a grapple at the same time). Also I found a different hydraulic winch (piercesales.com) which could probably run on my front hydraulics without having to adjust the flow or pressure (might want to swap in a faster hydraulic motor). So this option should be doable, mounting the winch directly on the loader arms, welding up a custom mount. The loader arms are way stronger than the frame of a truck so would be plenty strong enough for a front pull; the angles are such that loads on the lift cylinders would not exceed 20% of the pull or so. I have another year to decide how to handle this, but this option looks doable as well, while quite a bit cheaper than a PTO skidder and leaving the 3pt free for other attachments.

 

[makin1mess]

The Multiplier valve puts the hydraulic skidding back in the mix. And building this myself would save cost. I will post the build if that's the route I take.
Thanks again!

 

[caver]

I emailed and then left a voicemail for Farmi and they never returned either. All I was asking was where the nearest dealer was.

 

[namesray]

Any thoughts about a 3pt/pto winch vs a front loader mount hydraulic winch? The Farmi etc. winches are pretty expensive for anyone not doing this commercially, and nearly impossible to find used. But given front hydraulics it would be possible to for example mount a hydraulic winch above a grapple (when closed) to be able to haul logs out and then pick them up for transport. A loader mount might have some advantages for winching logs due to the possibility of increased height as well as more convenient view/control. Safety is not a problem as one could easily put some mesh on front of the ROPS. Plus the 3pt is then available for other implements, such as a backhoe with thumb which is also handy for moving logs.

a guy once told me his dream set up for light logging/firewood would be a front mount winch with a 3ph grapple. use the winch up front to get the logs to the road, then turn around and just back up to it and grapple on and go. nice idea, but don't know how feasable it would be. i wouldn't want it on the loader frame, but if there was such a thing as a front 3ph with front pto.....? then that would be my set up.

as far as a hydrolic winch, don't know if they could be as fast or as powerful as a pto one, but you would have more fine tune control on the pull, especially when getting it close to the winch/tractor for skidding.

 

[Gordon Gould]

If your considering a hydraulic winch I have heard good things about the Ramsey RPH 8000 used as a logging winch with a tractor. It is rated at 2500 psi and 15 gpm for 8000 lb pull at 50 feet per minute. But will take more pressure I believe. (Better check though) I am not familiar with your tractors but it seems like for a lot of tractors you would not have to limit the flow or pressure. My tractor is 2500 psi and 7 gpm so I would get 8K pull at about half the rated line speed. Its about $1300 I think. Ramsey shows some hydraulic performance charts here:

| Ramsey Winch |


gg

 

[dstig1]

I emailed and then left a voicemail for Farmi and they never returned either. All I was asking was where the nearest dealer was.

This is the guy I have used for Farmi. He responds well, though it may take a couple days:

Jeff Smaby
3 Rivers Forestry
N9241 Perkins Rd
Mindoro, WI 54644
608-857-3357
(866) 638-7885

Sales@threeriversforestry.com

 

[TBarD]

If your considering a hydraulic winch I have heard good things about the Ramsey RPH 8000 used as a logging winch with a tractor. It is rated at 2500 psi and 15 gpm for 8000 lb pull at 50 feet per minute. But will take more pressure I believe. (Better check though) I am not familiar with your tractors but it seems like for a lot of tractors you would not have to limit the flow or pressure. My tractor is 2500 psi and 7 gpm so I would get 8K pull at about half the rated line speed. Its about $1300 I think. Ramsey shows some hydraulic performance charts here:

| Ramsey Winch |


gg

This sounds interesting - my tractor hydraulics are 16 gpm at 2900 psi so this might work. 50 ft/min is just about right. I will take a look. Another feature which would be useful would be the possibility to rig a wireless remote control so that one could just drag the cable up there and pull without having to walk back first.

I had a PM exchange about this where we discussed possible harm to the tractor from a winch. This is a definite possibility if not done right. I think it can be done but just want to pass on the caution about not overloading anything. It really depends upon the tractor and where you mount it (the loader on my TLB is integral with the frame hence stronger than usual). But one can also damage the 3pt with a winch so it is a tradeoff. Side loads should definitely be avoided in both cases (bear in mind this is from someone who hasn't actually put a winch on the tractor yet but I think this is clear).