loggers are coming to clear the land behind us

[bigballer]

They should not be marking any of your trees. You are doing right by talking to the manager before things begin. They need to be marking their own trees.

Will the land be replanted after the harvest? I would think they would replant seedlings the year after or so. Ask about that. That makes good business sense.

Sometimes after the land is clearcut, the land will be sold. So, be on the lookout about that, too.

agreed, he seems to be a reasonable guy, we have already spoken to him a few times regarding other things.

Yes they replant the next year, i believe, here are a couple pics from the area above our place which was cut 5 years ago. the reprod trees are about 5-6ft high.

i am pretty sure this land will just sit, there is no easy access to it and it's so far out side of town. there are many other areas that would be easier to build that are available, and so many homes in the area for sale, but i suppose anything is possible.

 

[bigballer]

You have used the term "surveyors are marking." Are they PLS surveyors or are they timber cruisers surveying the timber. Is there a surveyed property line delineating the boundary or is there a vague "it is about here boundary" between your properties? If there is any question or you are challenging their definition of the property line; hire a survey team of your own to establish the boundary.

I am not a lawyer but there is not necessarily legal liability if a tree falls on your neighbors property in WA. It is termed act of god unless it can be shown that it was a clearly defined hazard tree with specific criteria. Otherwise your insurance would cover your damage but it is very hard to sue for damage if your neighbors tree falls on your property.

What is the percent slope of the hill that they are above your property?

there was a crew of three guys, they also marked the "property line" they had survey equipment, i was not home but my wife spoke to them. they also located the section marker which was covered with debris and dirt so i think this was used as a starting point.

the liability statement was made by the survey crew so this may or may not be true. need to find that out.

the slope directly behind us is 25-30 degrees and above that (100-150 yards) is as steep as 45-50 degrees.

 

[dmccarty]

...
btw the surveyors have since been back and have marked trees which are clearly on my side of the property line and these are some of the biggest. we have a call into the manager to figure out exactly what all these markings mean - there is blue paint, orange ribbons, some of the trees have been "checked".
...

The surveyors might be loggers who are crusing the timber. The might be taking an inventory of the trees to bid on the track.

What do you mean by "Checked?" In NC, property line trees will be cut twice in the bark to signify the tree is near the property line. Three cuts in the bark means a corner is nearby. There are usually three trees marked around the corner. Those marks will stay on the tree for many years and help find the property line well after the flagging and paint has disappeared.

When we timbered our land a tree to be cut was dotted with paint on the trunk and on the stump That way we could tell if the loggers took a tree that they had paid for and thus owned.

Flagging is usually used to mark property lines. Orange is good since it is easy to see in the woods. Is the flagging in an obvious line marking the property lines?

Do you really know where the property lines are located? I have had neighbors over the years who THOUGHT they knew the line location and they have been wrong multiple times. I once paid to have the line reblazed since I knew one of the owners was about to build a septic field and since he did not have a clue about the property line location, I knew his septic field would be on my land. Stopped that real quick. Cheaper than a lawyer later on.

Make danged sure YOU know where the property line is located and make danged sure it is obvious to the loggers.

If I were you, I would find out what what the law says, if they take one of your trees. As previously mentioned, in NC to takes someone else's trees is a criminal and civil matter. Being home when the timber is not a bad idea if you can do so. Some loggers are honest and do good work. Some are a bunch of thieves. NC state used to have a phone number to call that would provide the average price of trees across different regions of the state. You might want to see if you state has such service.

Later,
Dan

 

[Furu]

the slope directly behind us is 25-30 degrees and above that (100-150 yards) is as steep as 45-50 degrees.

If it is actually a 45-50% slope on the low side and a 90% slope on the high side there will be mitigation that will have to be looked at carefully. They may/probably will have to do cable yarding on the steeper slopes. Depending upon their access to their property this may give you some negotiating room if they need access through your property for the anchor point. Is it one of the larger companies that own the land?

 

[Pilot]

There should be a soil survey available from the extension office. It should have ratings for slope stability--not always right, but a good guide as to the risk. Are slides common in your immediate area? Do you see groups of leaning trees or trees with curves in the trunks, meaning the land moved some time back and the trees grew upright after the event.

Ah! Here are soil surveys for Washington: Washington Online Soil Survey Manuscripts | NRCS Soils You want the map index. A little exploring and you will find an aerial photo index. Find your place (it will likely take a little work) and note the soil type number. Then look up the soil type and not the soil type name. After that, all the look ups are by the soil type name. Explore a little. You will find info on your soil type in general descriptions, detailed descriptions describing each horizon and tabular info, which is where you will find a slope stability rating.

For other folks, find your soil survey starting here: Online Soil Survey Manuscripts | NRCS Soils

In your pics, the uppermost slope in the first pic is the only one I would be concerned about, although I can't see much in the second pic that is useful.

Only a handful of trees have blown down, falling into the stand, which is typical as the wind across the opening causes most of the damage.

The seedlings in the second pic look to be growing about 24-30" per year. If that's about right, in 10 years they will be about 25-30 feet tall and most folks driving by won't notice that it was clear cut.

With all the dead brush (winter pic?) I suspect it has been sprayed, which freaks out some folks.

 

[bigballer]

What do you mean by "Checked?"

they used an axe to take an obvious square chunk out of the bark at about eye level. these are on their side of the orange tape they used to mark the line and yes it's very straight, can see all the way down the line where it's not obstructed by trees or branches. on my side of the orange taped line they marked the trees with 2 big blue spray paint dots.

They may/probably will have to do cable yarding on the steeper slopes. Depending upon their access to their property this may give you some negotiating room if they need access through your property for the anchor point. Is it one of the larger companies that own the land?

IMO they would need to cable yard it due to the steepness but in some areas may be able to use an excavator. according to the tax parcel info they purchased this land for $24 million a few years ago. and per their website they own/manage over 3 million acres of forest in the west and from texas to north carolina.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

they used an axe to take an obvious square chunk out of the bark at about eye level. these are on their side of the orange tape they used to mark the line and yes it's very straight, can see all the way down the line where it's not obstructed by trees or branches. on my side of the orange taped line they marked the trees with 2 big blue spray paint dots.




IMO they would need to cable yard it due to the steepness but in some areas may be able to use an excavator. according to the tax parcel info they purchased this land for $24 million a few years ago. and per their website they own/manage over 3 million acres of forest in the west and from texas to north carolina.

Bigballer,

If you took ofense at my posts I apologize. My aproach is not always gentle as I am getting old and crotchity and have seen my share of both sides of this issue; that is why I tried to explain my posistion from an economic standpoint. On a positive note in the spirit of assistance; I just went through the DNR permit process for my upcoming logging and they are very thorough. It was denied the first time so had to resubmit with changes. I do not what county you are in but here in Kitsap, the local Indian tribe had to approve the permit, in fact their forester was with the state inspector. Like everything else in WA state though beware; the big guys with lots of money tend to get and do things us little guys get stopped for. My creek is considered a migratory fish habitat so that increased the buffer zone. I have never even seen a minnow in the creek but that is the way it is. I cannot do any thing on, in, or next to the creek without Dept of fisheries permitting. Also the only survey that means anything is one signed by a registered land surveyor or civil engineer, in a dispute that is what rules. I have always practiced comminicating with neighbors on any issue of mine coming up that may impact them before they get it through the grapevine. Before doing my logging application both myself and the loggers forester contacted every neighbor personally. I hate surprises and so do others.

Ron

 

[Redbug]

Is that Plum Creek?

 

[Garybake]

There should be a soil survey available from the extension office. It should have ratings for slope stability--not always right, but a good guide as to the risk. Are slides common in your immediate area? Do you see groups of leaning trees or trees with curves in the trunks, meaning the land moved some time back and the trees grew upright after the event.

Ah! Here are soil surveys for Washington: Washington Online Soil Survey Manuscripts | NRCS Soils You want the map index. A little exploring and you will find an aerial photo index. Find your place (it will likely take a little work) and note the soil type number. Then look up the soil type and not the soil type name. After that, all the look ups are by the soil type name. Explore a little. You will find info on your soil type in general descriptions, detailed descriptions describing each horizon and tabular info, which is where you will find a slope stability rating.

For other folks, find your soil survey starting here: Online Soil Survey Manuscripts | NRCS Soils

In your pics, the uppermost slope in the first pic is the only one I would be concerned about, although I can't see much in the second pic that is useful.

Only a handful of trees have blown down, falling into the stand, which is typical as the wind across the opening causes most of the damage.

The seedlings in the second pic look to be growing about 24-30" per year. If that's about right, in 10 years they will be about 25-30 feet tall and most folks driving by won't notice that it was clear cut.

With all the dead brush (winter pic?) I suspect it has been sprayed, which freaks out some folks.

Wow, that is some very handy information for a bunch of people who are constantly using heavy equipment to work in it. Thanks for the link and info. Not only is it helpful for me in Northern Mi but details the river area around our winter home.:thumbsup:

 

[dmccarty]

they used an axe to take an obvious square chunk out of the bark at about eye level. these are on their side of the orange tape they used to mark the line and yes it's very straight, can see all the way down the line where it's not obstructed by trees or branches. on my side of the orange taped line they marked the trees with 2 big blue spray paint dots.

Sounds like they were clearly marking the property line so that the loggers know whose trees to take.

Later,
Dan