Logging on a budget?

[piller]

At this point I've got a 4wd tractor, a FEL with pallet forks, and a 20 foot chain. This setup works pretty good for getting logs that I can get close to with my tractor.

Now, I want to retrieve some trees/logs that I cannot get the tractor close to, for example 50 feet down in a hollow, or 150 feet in the woods.

A three point hitch logging winch setup would be great but it's too expensive.

Should I buy a bunch of chain? Would a steel cable be better?

I want a good way to retrieve logs but it needs to be safe. Suggestions appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Chilly807]

I've been where you are now, and just finally said enough is enough. I bought a log winch for the three point with the thought that after I'm finally done cutting firewood and hauling deadfalls, I should be able to sell it for not much less than what I paid for it.

Having said that, it's possible to do the same job without it, it just takes longer.

I used a 200 foot long piece of nylon rope and a snatch block anchored in a tree. The safety police will have a field day with this.. you use a smaller diameter rope to anchor the snatch block, so the small rope will break before the larger hauling line. That's the theory anyway. I never had any problems, but it's not the safest way to do things. Hauling without the snatch block to redirect the angle is just asking for a trip to the ER, if you're lucky.

I use a skidding cone for the nose of the log so it doesn't get hooked on everything it passes.

A long cable is one of the most hateful things known to man to haul around, and chain is heavy as sin. It's why I used the rope, which was bad enough.

If you decide to use the rope or cable, I'd suggest you make a safety screen out of something strong enough to stop the cable or rope. Attach it to the back of the ROPS, and stay behind it when pulling.

Personally, I'd buy the winch and be done with it, or not do it at all. I was lucky, and very careful besides, and it turned out well in the end.

Sean

 

[Grandad4]

Lot's of us have walked down that road. Like you, I started out with a 20ft log chain, kept adding more until we had 130 ft. Rigging that up to make a pull will definitely make a man out of you, but you don't really get a lot done that way. Went to a pallet fork setup (poor man's grapple) and carried lots of logs out in 6-8 ft. sections using the FEL. But again, as you said, one can only go so many places with the tractor.

I had considered rigging up a hydraulic winch to be mounted in the FEL or on one of those 3pt bucket scoops, but it didn't seem cost effective.

So we recently bought the logging winch, which raises the bar to a whole new level. Like Chilly, we figure to sell the thing when we're done. If you can wait about 3 years, I'll make you a really good deal. So far, it's doing exactly as we wanted and works well. See the "Logging winch update" thread with photos I recently posted.

 

[Mudfarmer]

I on the other hand like cheap. Must be why I like Harbor Freight (HF). Look for some of my other posts to see pictures. I have a 3 point crane ($150) to which I attached a HF 2 inch receiver ($20). I got a HF winch mount on sale that hooks into a 2 inch receiver ($40). I bought a 8000# HF winch on sale ($300) which has 100 feet of cable. I extended the electricals with 4 gauge welding cable (2x 8 feet, expensive at $40) and added an old pair of alligator clamps from an old set of jumper cables. Put a snatch block ($30) on the front of the crane so that the line runs easily onto the winch, hook the aligator clamps to the battery and your set to go. I can feed the wires under the hood of my JD 3005 so that they are out of the way. Total cost: < $600. You'll want a couple of extra snatch blocks for running the line around corners and some chain for when you get out over 90 feet.

I have hauled in 18 inch 20 foot logs with this, then lifted the front end of the log with the crane and hauled it to the woodshed. The bonus is that I have done the same by hooking the winch up to the front end 2 inch receiver ($200 from Curt online) on my pickup. I actually store the winch in the truck since mud season is arriving.

Mf

 

[Skyco]

I use a skidding cone for the nose of the log so it doesn't get hooked on everything it passes.

Which skidding cone do you use? I've been contemplating buying one, the big yellow plastic one but have never been able to actually see one first...

Oh - and nylon rope? You are a brave man, that stuff stretches and stores a lot of energy.

 

[Grandad4]

I on the other hand like cheap. Must be why I like Harbor Freight (HF). Look for some of my other posts to see pictures. I have a 3 point crane ($150) to which I attached a HF 2 inch receiver ($20). I got a HF winch mount on sale that hooks into a 2 inch receiver ($40). I bought a 8000# HF winch on sale ($300) which has 100 feet of cable. I extended the electricals with 4 gauge welding cable (2x 8 feet, expensive at $40) and added an old pair of alligator clamps from an old set of jumper cables. Put a snatch block ($30) on the front of the crane so that the line runs easily onto the winch, hook the aligator clamps to the battery and your set to go. I can feed the wires under the hood of my JD 3005 so that they are out of the way. Total cost: < $600. You'll want a couple of extra snatch blocks for running the line around corners and some chain for when you get out over 90 feet.

I have hauled in 18 inch 20 foot logs with this, then lifted the front end of the log with the crane and hauled it to the woodshed. The bonus is that I have done the same by hooking the winch up to the front end 2 inch receiver ($200 from Curt online) on my pickup. I actually store the winch in the truck since mud season is arriving.

Mf

Good for you, Mudfarmer. An electric winch was my first "build it yourself" concept, but I figured it would draw down the battery pretty fast, limiting how many pulls you could make at one time. Have you found that to be the case?

 

[IndyIan]

There is synthetic rope with a 10,000lb working rating, and its tough enough to use as chokers! I forget the name of it but my local small scale forestry shop had 250' rolls for something like $400 I think. I'm going to get a roll and with some pullies and a cone so I can snake a log from all sorts of tricky spots without skidding winch.
I'm sure a winch is much faster but for a hobbyist getting a couple thousand bdft out a year, its probably more trouble to keep a winch running well and the cable sorted out so you can actually unwind it once you get halfway to your log... I guess 250 ft rolls of rope isn't really a treat work with either in the woods but atleast it was cheap!

 

[Arky217]

I logged and milled all the lumber that I used to build my house.
At that time, I didn't have my tractor, but I had an ATV.

I built an extendable log arch, and mounted a hand winch. It would pick the entire log off the ground, as large as 28" dia. by 16' long.

I built it strong but light enough so that I could unhook it from the ATV and push it over the log.

Using this method, I was able to get in some tight places.
Downside of this method, however, would be steep slopes.

An upside though, is that the log stays completely clean from dirt and mud.

 

[Baby Grand]

There is synthetic rope with a 10,000lb working rating, and its tough enough to use as chokers! I forget the name of it but my local small scale forestry shop had 250' rolls for something like $400 I think. I'm going to get a roll and with some pullies and a cone so I can snake a log from all sorts of tricky spots without skidding winch.
I'm sure a winch is much faster but for a hobbyist getting a couple thousand bdft out a year, its probably more trouble to keep a winch running well and the cable sorted out so you can actually unwind it once you get halfway to your log... I guess 250 ft rolls of rope isn't really a treat work with either in the woods but atleast it was cheap!

Dyneema? Expensive stuff, but supposed to be the cat's whiskers.

I'm using 5/8" Double Braided Polyester (not polypropelyene)- about 90 - 95% strength of nylon for a little more $, but with way less stretch. ROughly 13000 lbs tensile stregth (derate with your choice of Safety Factor). I'm using snatch blocks and (when needed) a block and tackle to reduce line pull loads. Haven't had much experience, but once the ground freezes up I plan to get crackin' in earnest & will report out.

 

[SPYDERLK]

There is synthetic rope with a 10,000lb working rating, and its tough enough to use as chokers! I forget the name of it but my local small scale forestry shop had 250' rolls for something like $400 I think. I'm going to get a roll and with some pullies and a cone so I can snake a log from all sorts of tricky spots without skidding winch.
I'm sure a winch is much faster but for a hobbyist getting a couple thousand bdft out a year, its probably more trouble to keep a winch running well and the cable sorted out so you can actually unwind it once you get halfway to your log... I guess 250 ft rolls of rope isn't really a treat work with either in the woods but atleast it was cheap!

Use a chain choker. Regardless of tufness little tiny rope fibers grind up easy.
larry

 

[IndyIan]

Use a chain choker. Regardless of tufness little tiny rope fibers grind up easy.
larry

That's what I figured too, but the fellow had rope chokers for sale, all made up with a short chunk of chain to hook onto a hitch.
I've got a few 14' logging chains but I bought them for my Atv so they are grade 30 1400lb working limit ones... Doh! Tempting to use with my tractor on less than 1400lb logs but I should just sell them and get the grade 70 ones. Fooling around in the woods is dangerous enough with good equipment.

 

[SPYDERLK]

That's what I figured too, but the fellow had rope chokers for sale, all made up with a short chunk of chain to hook onto a hitch.
I've got a few 14' logging chains but I bought them for my Atv so they are grade 30 1400lb working limit ones...

Sounds like 1/4 inch chain. A 6' choker of short link [supple and damage resistant] Gr70 would do well. 1/4 would probably be enuf working with rope. It has 3150WL and 12,600MinimumBreak. Gives you an idea of the safety factor built into work load ratings to allow for jerk. The small give in even the stiffest ropes moderates jerk and provides more safety going above the WL on chain.
larry

 

[IndyIan]

I'm pretty sure its 5/16 and I got it at TSC. I remember it saying 1400lbs but I read that many 5/16 grade 30 chains have a 1900lb working limit. I have one better one rated for 4000lbs. With either one on the ATV I don't have to think about them at all, but with the weaker chain I can see it snapping before the tractor stopping if a log get stuck on a root or stump...

I'll have to really watch for a while with the tractor as its pretty much 10x the forces the ATV could dish out. If I bumped a tree with a log behind the ATV, not much would happen, with a tractor it might sway the whole tree and have all sorts of crap raining down on me...
On the plus side I can pull down snags or hang ups from 200' away with that fancy rope and the tractor.

 

[Chilly807]

Which skidding cone do you use? I've been contemplating buying one, the big yellow plastic one but have never been able to actually see one first...

Oh - and nylon rope? You are a brave man, that stuff stretches and stores a lot of energy.

I built mine from 1/4 inch aluminum plate, the nose is reinforced with aluminum pipe, and I added a chain carrying handle to one side. It's 18" across the bottom and about 2 " at the top opening. You put a chain choker on the log, extend the chain through the cone and snug the cone up on the butt. A grab hook where the chain emerges from the cone keeps the cone in place.

Sean

 

[pat32rf]

When we used to skid with ropes we went with 1" nylon, ( dollar/foot, back then) behind the 4x4s. Lots of stretch in 100' but we could never break it.
Now (35yrs later) I use the tractor with a 8000lb winch and a spare battery mounted on the 3pth and connected to the tractor for charging. When I am by myself I work slow enough that I've never killed the battery but one day I was hauling out oak with two helpers and managed to kill it. They also managed to snap the cable.......even with a snatch block on the log. I figure I have about $400 in the winch and $125 into the battery(Optima) which gets used for other things the rest of the year when not doing firewood, but if need be I can get all my wood out myself.

 

[piller]

Thanks for all the responses so far!

I know how much my 20 foot chain weighs and the idea of using 100 feet of chain seems like it would be a real workout. Dealing with logs and chainsaws is already a pretty good workout, I don't really need more. I was not aware of logging ropes, perhaps I'll look into that further, if anyone has suggestions or links please post.

I considered an electric winch, the price is not too bad, however then you need a mounting setup, another battery, cables, etc. I looked at one 8000 lb winch and it was rated at 500 Amps of current at 8000 lbs of pull, that would deplete a battery pretty fast. Perhaps get a portable power generator to charge the battery and ......

Since the tractor has hydraulics and a pto it makes sense to use that, although I'm not aware of any affordable hydraulic/pto winches. Any suggestions for those?

I agree that a real logging winch would be the way to go. A couple of you with logging winches mentioned buying one, using it for a while and then selling, however I think that if I were to get one I'd keep it for a long time.

 

[sizzami]

you could probablysave a couple bucks if you used an axe too... but in the end a winch is the way to go . and not a cheap electric one either , they just dont hold up and are slow.

 

[PILOON]

I rigged an electric winch c/w remote control at about 50 ft.
I run it direct from my CUT battery via #4 cables using Anderson connectors.
The winch is probably rated at 5000 lbs ( I guess) as it is the size you find on SUV's.
The winch cable is 5/16" ad so far pulling out logs has not even taken out the kinks in the cable.
I did hang up the logs a few times, enough to lift the tractor fron clear of the ground.
I have found that my CUT battery handles it just fine as remember by the time you unhook the last pull, drag the tow line to the next tree or bundle lash it all together for the next pull enough time has passed for the battery to be close to being back to full charge.

My install is simple. Bolted the winch onto a 5/16 plate that was welded to a section of 2 X 2 tubing that gets pinned into my trailer tube.

In summary, for occasional usage electric winching seems to be viable.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I wouldnt think that an electric winch motor would stand up to reeling in 200 feet of line day in and day out. It would likely burn up on the first pull unless you let it cool a bit. I would think 50 foot pull would tax them pretty good.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

I have been keeping my eyes out for awhile now for a used logging winch in the PNW, no luck so far but have seen several on the east coast. You can use searchtempest to search mutiple craigslist listings.